The "Black Hole" of woke....

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SOME do. I don’t care for “womyn.” I prefer using gender neutral terms wherever possible.

I think that gender is too inflated of a concept. We are all people first.

I assure you, picking a word will be less trouble than trying to rhetorically fight me on it, but you still won't because you get so much mileage out of the fuzzy definition, criticism being so easily deflected with more word games instead of substantive engagement. So, woke it is.

I love that line from the old 30's jazz song:

"It ain't what you do but the way that you do it... that's what gets results."

When we feel so passionately about our convictions, I think it is wise to deeply reflect on the means we use to achieve our ends. It seems to me that not doing so is only accentuating the polarisation and fragmentation of the world we live in.

The older I get, the more I seem to fall into the
"don't know" camp on many hot issues .. it's honest and I prefer hanging out with fellow "don't knowers" that with those that shake their fists at me and the world.

This ol' pecker-bearer has a point.

I, myself, wouldn't want to see a woman in a bathroom where I'm "doing my business."

And I am SURE women don't like seeing men in their "inner sanctum."

Women's bathrooms used to be (maybe still are) places where they (women) consult each other about something like "how the date is going" when there's a double date.

There's nothing "sneaky," or "sniveling, or "centrist" about my pointing out the potential for abuse.

There is an element of male who likes looking at women go to the bathroom. That's a fact. I'm not one of them. But I've known people who do like this.

I understood it as both a very archaic tradition and somewhat less archaic euphemism, but I tend to assume if it's being used now it's more likely distorted from the earlier euphemism (even if they're using it to mean going to the bathroom, they're probably aware of it having multiple euphemistic meanings so they'll use it in situations where the ambiguity is multiplied for lulz, vs. the euphemism they'd pick in another situation).

We have individual cubicles. He would have to literally lie down on the floor to cop an eyeful

Those sprays make me sick for days because of the chemical fragrance.

I'd rather deal with a doozie than a spray.

Sorry babybird, we are way off topic here. Hope that's OK.

I always figured one is putting zero feet forward with the folks one meets in public bathrooms

Unless that's one's thing...

Trans issues are the real black hole of a debate, it's just a toxic scene, and you truly would probably have a hard time believing some of the stuff you'll hear if you dig into it. I feel bad because I honestly think it's a situation where a community is being poorly served by the "activists" claiming to represent them, I suspect the vast majority of trans people would prefer to quietly live as their chosen gender without all the fuss, but this *extremely* loud minority manages to command all the attention and drives the issue. As with woke stuff generally, far too many people use these issues as basically a license to be a jerk, indulging in all of their bullying instincts with the patina of moral righteousness making it "okay" for them to do, good even, all the while fomenting a backlash against the very people they claim to be helping.

Care to wager if he has to Google what at least one of those things is?

I really don't care for the most part about trans stuff, I think it's largely blown out of proportion, but I can't stand sacred cows that you aren't supposed to question, especially when the bovine in question has quite so many defense mechanisms, from TERF accusations (seriously, it's just a slur at this point, it has no actual meaning) to "believe the science" (that is often shoddy and has no real track record), to emotional blackmail (they'll kill themselves if you don't use the right terminology), it all raises giant red flags to me.

The women's prisons thing is probably the most serious, there have been multiple instances of unaltered males claiming transgender identity being housed with natal female inmates and going on to rape them, I think the only reason it hasn't been a bigger scandal has been media aversion to the stories. It kind of reminds me of the grooming gangs incidents in the UK, where the police slow walked or outright ignored multiple cases of organized sexual exploitation of minors because the perpetrators were all Pakistanis (IIRC), and they were afraid of looking racist. Can you even imagine the outrage if those stories were more widely known?

Transbians and their issues are mostly just sad, but the entitlement displayed by the whole cotton ceiling thing is pretty gross, truly toxic behavior excused because of the identity of the perpetrators.

I think you've got your tactics wrong there, if you treat someone acting in bad faith as if they're being genuine, you've wasted a bit of your time, but if you treat someone acting in good faith as if they're being disingenuous, you're at minimum going to piss them off, and potentially make an enemy both for yourself and your cause. Ever notice just how many people that hate wokeness have similar stories about being unfairly accused of things? It's not a coincidence.

Agreed. I do think that there are certain people who like to use woke as a weapon and a useful tool in bullying.

I've also known people who I figured to be racist to befriend people of colour (in the workplace) just so they could get better positions and promotion.

I do think that I (as a user) cannot let this stand unchallenged. It’s a great example of a moral panic.

It is rare and difficult for a trans person who has not legally changed their gender to be housed in prisons intended for the opposite sex. The vast majority of trans women are imprisoned in the male estate, often in solitary confinement because they’re deemed to be at risk from the men. Additionally, in the UK every single trans man in prison is imprisoned in the female estate.

Yes, sometimes trans women commit sexual assault in prison. But so do cis women (and cis men). The particular panic around trans women assaulting cis women is out of proportion. The vast majority of sexual assaults committed in women’s prisons are committed by cis women. There is no clarity on the proportion of assaults committed by trans women rather than trans men or non-binary prisoners, but in the UK, a sexual assault is committed by a trans prisoner about once every two years. Meanwhile, a trans woman in the male estate is sexually assaulted once a month. Trans women are much more likely to be the victims of prison violence than the perpetrators.

Source for the above: https://chamberuk.com/opinion-transgend ... ally-know/

(And it seems to also hold true in a US context: https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/fi ... %20web.pdf)

I also can’t agree with the idea that sexual assaults committed by trans people aren’t widely reported upon. I already knew most of what I was saying, but needed to find sources. When I searched the internet, did I immediately find what I was looking for? No, I found no end of hysteria, from tabloids, TERF groups, and even politicians. I also found plenty of reporting of specific instances, particularly Karen White. To be clear, I think it is legitimate to cover the Karen White case, but White was given far more attention than cis women who do the same thing, or cis men who assault men, or trans victims, even though all of those happen far more often.