Science is a metaphysical party pooper.

Page 16 of 17 [ 259 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

06 Feb 2009, 12:18 pm

Magnus wrote:

It's so lame to base your opinions on others. You can't tell me you have never walked into a room and haven't felt a presence or feeling of those before you. If you really are that unaware of your surroundings, I am truly sorry for you. I really do not want to judge the common sense ret*ds but I can't help but think that you are all trying to hide behind "logic" like a tool.

Where is the objective evidence. Having a "feeling" does not count. How do you know your "feeling" wasn't a delusion or wishful thinking?

ruveyn

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

06 Feb 2009, 12:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Where is the objective evidence. Having a "feeling" does not count. How do you know your "feeling" wasn't a delusion or wishful thinking?

ruveyn

I don't.

For all I know, my whole life is a delusion.

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 100
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

06 Feb 2009, 12:30 pm

slowmutant wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Where is the objective evidence. Having a "feeling" does not count. How do you know your "feeling" wasn't a delusion or wishful thinking?

ruveyn

I don't.

For all I know, my whole life is a delusion.

Well, actually, all our lives are delusions. But some are closer to pragmatic actuality than others. It's important to continually discount vague feelings and try to assemble something that integrates into self consistent reality. We each never really get there totally but it's worth trying. And it keeps us from getting hit by reckless drivers or getting wet in the rain.

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

06 Feb 2009, 12:32 pm

merrily, merrily, merrily ...

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

06 Feb 2009, 4:56 pm

Magnus wrote:

I don't want to veere off tract for too long but I want to know your opinion in short about why you think you aren't a good judge at perceiving higher entities. I mean, have you ever felt something about a person that bugged you and then it proved to be an accurate warning? I'm not saying that intuition is always an accurate measure of reality, but for some (jeez...this is getting finicky) umm...er...ok, here's the question...

No, not really. I do not get much in terms of readings when I first talk to someone.

Quote:

Looking back in hind sight, some things that come straight out to you like truth and goes against your logic and, when it slaps you in the face and reminds you that it was/is right despite your rationale...it's undeniable, that "delusional" voice, right?

Intuition is only as accurate as one's level of self awareness.

I have had things that I have felt to be undeniable, but in the end, all of my instincts have contradicted each other at some point. Thus, I would not trust my intuition *that* strongly if I can help it, and I certainly have a high level of distrust for the intuitions of others.

undefineable
Velociraptor

Joined: 13 May 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 402
Location: UK

06 Feb 2009, 7:16 pm

Sand wrote:

Well, actually, all our lives are delusions. But some are closer to pragmatic actuality than others.

Your actuality is much smaller and simpler than the real-world systems that a non-autistic human brain is capable of producing on top of it. So a mind that expands and floats away from that actuality into a social whirl is not inferior to a mind of pure logic; it's actually far more complex.

Sand wrote:

It's important to continually discount vague feelings and try to assemble something that integrates into self consistent reality.

Feelings are part of reality. You can't argue with that, assuming you're sane. Wishful thoughts (ruveyn) are imaginative, therefore they exist separately to that which they imagine.

Again bringing autism into the picture, intuition is social by function, and is both powerful and accurate, as well as far faster and less demanding than logical deduction. Therefore, 'vague feelings' are generally a more reliable as well as more integrated guide to the reality of non-autistic ppl than logical thoughts are.

Sand wrote:

We each never really get there totally but it's worth trying. And it keeps us from getting hit by reckless drivers or getting wet in the rain.

As I've explained, there's a lot more to human survival than inanimate objects. I know I keep banging on at you & Ruveyn, and I'm getting a little frustrated and bored to be honest, because a lot of what you say points more to alexithymia rather than any reasoned argument based on reality. That in itself is interesting, however.

twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

06 Feb 2009, 7:23 pm

undefineable wrote:

Again bringing autism into the picture, intuition is social by function, and is both powerful and accurate as well as far faster and less demanding than logical deduction. Therefore, 'vague feelings' are generally a more reliable as well as more integrated guide to our reality than logical thoughts.

Whoa. Slow down there buddy. People's intuitions may have their place, but I think claiming they are more reliable is something that requires some evidence, and considering the vase and myriad blatant idiocies of pre-scientific thought in humans, it's almost certainly false. The human feeling mechanism evolved primarily for modeling other people, and sucks the high hard one at doing anything else.

_________________
* here for the nachos.

undefineable
Velociraptor

Joined: 13 May 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 402
Location: UK

06 Feb 2009, 7:35 pm

twoshots wrote:

It's common knowledge that intuitions are more reliable when it comes to dealing with ppl. When you mention 'pre-scientific thought', that's an example of intuition overstepping its boundaries. It's worth bearing in mind that many non-autistic ppl do little more than model each other, and that that's really not as petty as it sounds_

twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

06 Feb 2009, 7:42 pm

undefineable wrote:

twoshots wrote:

The point is they can model each other till the cows come home, but if they want to model non-social reality they need more than vague feelings and intuition.

_________________
* here for the nachos.

greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

06 Feb 2009, 7:46 pm

undefineable wrote:

It's common knowledge that they're more reliable when it comes to dealing with ppl.

Intuition works with dealing with people for interacting with each other and it can serve as an aid and surviving mechanism, but as for gaining knowledge and pursuing the truth or looking for facts of an event or phenomena, they are *very* unreliable, and not worth trusted without reason, critical analysis and compelling evidence of things that can be physically proved in such cases, intuition is very subjective and is very related to cognitive biases.

_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?

blackelk
Deinonychus

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 308
Location: New York

06 Feb 2009, 7:55 pm

undefineable wrote:

twoshots wrote:

Not just dealing with people. But in making complex judgements on the fly. Even better than conscious, rational thought. "Genius" is nothing more than tapping into your intuition. Whether your genius is in science, art, sports, etc.. It is something we all have. Just some are better at tapping into it and recognizing it than others.

This book goes into it well.

http://www.amazon.com/Blink-Power-Think ... 0316172324

_________________
"Meaninglessness inhibits fullness of life and is therefore equivalent to illness. Meaning makes a great many things endurable ? perhaps everything.?

undefineable
Velociraptor

Joined: 13 May 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 402
Location: UK

06 Feb 2009, 8:03 pm

twoshots wrote:

The point is they can model each other till the cows come home, but if they want to model non-social reality they need more than vague feelings and intuition.

My point is that non-social reality is smaller and simpler than social reality

greenblue wrote:

It's merely the physical world that intuition can't cover imho

undefineable
Velociraptor

Joined: 13 May 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 402
Location: UK

06 Feb 2009, 8:11 pm

blackelk wrote:

I think it boils down 2 what different ppl's brains do best

MrGerbz
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 7

06 Feb 2009, 11:13 pm

Dokken wrote:

then scientology would fit you two well

If I remember correctly, Scientologists don't believe in psychology and/or medicine, right?

With other words, no Asperger can be a Scientologist, because if they somehow become retar.... Sorry I mean scientologist, they will not believe their diagnose.

I have to say one thing though; Scientology is a cult, jsut like Christianity and the Islam are. How'd you think Those 2 cults started? Scientology has a lot less victims than the bigger cults.

PLA
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 May 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,929
Location: Sweden

07 Feb 2009, 6:06 am

undefineable wrote:

twoshots wrote:

The point is they can model each other till the cows come home, but if they want to model non-social reality they need more than vague feelings and intuition.

My point is that non-social reality is smaller and simpler than social reality

Then, the two of you are arguing past eachother.

You are trying to make points that don't formally conflict.

_________________
I can make a statement true by placing it first in this signature.

"Everyone loves the dolphin. A bitter shark - emerging from it's cold depths - doesn't stand a chance." This is hyperbol.

"Run, Jump, Fall, Limp off, Try Harder."

undefineable
Velociraptor

Joined: 13 May 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 402
Location: UK

07 Feb 2009, 4:00 pm

PLA wrote:

undefineable wrote:

twoshots wrote:

The point is they can model each other till the cows come home, but if they want to model non-social reality they need more than vague feelings and intuition.

My point is that non-social reality is smaller and simpler than social reality

Then, the two of you are arguing past eachother.

You are trying to make points that don't formally conflict.

The issue is whether reality is simply inanim8 matter or if it's a little more sophisticated

Page 16 of 17 [ 259 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 Next

Jump to:

Science is a metaphysical party pooper. Post Reply New Topic

Science is a metaphysical party pooper.