Tiller aborted

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Thanks to those who responded to my post on the previous page and clarified their positions. Sometimes I forget how tempting the tangents can be to people who love details.

I still cannot swallow how anyone who is truly Christian could ever think the murder in this thread was OK to commit. That isn't the faith I've been given. But, as such, it isn't an intellectual point, but a matter of what being Christian means.

The Septuagint was translated a couple of hundred years before Jesus was born, by Jews. To say that these people didn't have access to Jewish traditions is just silly.


No translation of anything is perfect, but saying you shouldn't read translations because of that is taking it way too far.


Many modern translations use 'maiden' or 'young woman', even though they still have that same theological axe to grind.

Murder isn't ok to commit especially referring to the story of Cain and Able that will tell you that murder is wrong and where it gets you.

The killing of Dr.Tiller was wrong. What I was trying to say is that while I know the reason it was done it shouldn't have been done.
The killer should have just edcated people about it and discourage them from doing so.

Thats what I should have said

Nah. You said what you really think and that is exactly what you should have said...he died the way he lived...should not have been allowed in church...he was asking for it. Real thoughts are always much more interesting.

I concur, the backpedaling was solely because they were called on it.

I don't agree. It shows a sliver of consideration, not for others so much as the little nag in the back of her head saying "maybe I shouldn't take joy at another person's death".



I have never stated something to the effect of "all absolute statements are false". I have taken the position that it is better to be open to the possibility that you are wrong, because in my view, there is now way for us to know for certain that you are right. If you really need me to get all logical about this, "All absolute statements are fallible with the exception of the statement 'all absolute statements are fallible".



I won't tell them they're wrong. I will say their reasoning is insufficient or weak. I will say they are basing their conclusions on logical fallacies. But I will not tell them that "they are wrong", because that would be arrogant, just as them saying that they "are right" IS arrogant.



You're not trying to understand my position. This response isn't really a response to what I was getting at, it's just you picking out bits of my response to get reactionary about. Anyone can justify anything (being that justification is relative), but for someone to "deserve" something would suggest a moral absolute.



Come on...

To say that no human is perfect is a general statement.

To say that all humans are sinners is a statement that assumes there is such a thing as "sin".



I'm not supporting them, I just like them. It was humorous to me. I'm not saying that I think there is justification, just that I appreciate where he's coming from.



No, just hilarious.



I can concede this possibility.



I just don't agree with this. To hold an opinion, you merely need to feel it is superior to other options of opinion. That doesn't make it "correct", just "better than". I can discount the group that thinks "they are right", because to me, it is a demonstrably fallible statement. It doesn't matter what the opinion is regarding, it's almost always more complicated than "this is right/this is wrong".



*heart*

Perhaps I should be more well-spoken, like this, as opposed to just saying "you're a hypocrite".



This.

And then you guys go crazy bible study up in here.

SG, I don't suppose you'll ever acknowledge my existence with a reply?

That's "Cain and Abel", not "Cain and Able".

If you're going to reference the bible, at least have the decency to use correct spelling, pronunciation & grammar.

People make typos. It shouldn't affect your opinion, here, of what they have said. My brilliant son, as a component of his AS, cannot write or spell for the life of him. But he is still brilliant. (um, and no, SG is not my son. Just using my son as an example).

Have the dececny to refere to the Bilbe with the first letter capital, woudl you!

Hey when you work in that field your bound to get hurt by some right-wing extremist like the Phineas Priesthood.
He put himself in that situation which should be a sign that maybe this isn't a good job to take. Its as dangerous as being a police
officer or in the army.

Still there are just as dangerous jobs out there you can get killed for doing.

Christians like myself get killed everyday for spreading the Gospel in many countries. So in many places that in itself is just as dangerous. If I lived in North Korea I could get the death penalty for more then half of what I've said.

Working in American convenience stores that get robbed constantly is dangerous.

It can happen to anyone anytime anywhere.

Still its not right to kill people and we are all human.

Technically I would be a daughter not son. But yeah I get what you mean.

You still seem a bit ambivalent about assigning fault ... blame should go to the gunman, not the doctor who was the victim. If one lives their life by trying to avoid being a terrorist target, one becomes a victim of terrorism - terrorism works by killing a few to control the many.

Lol, I knew that, but I was talking about my son, so his gender seemed appropriate for it.

It is impossible to avoid acts of terrorism, you are right. And certain pro-life activists do use terrorist tactics.

And it would be cowardly to not do something out of fear of being a random target. No one should allow their choices to be dictated by a terrorist's threats; we each must follow our own conscious.

And, yes, I do think ShadowGirl still has some mixed feelings about the Tiller murder. People are not completely in control of their own feelings about things, so that doesn't necessarily mean she agrees intellectually with her feelings. We can nudge and direct, but each person has to resolve their own feelings themselves. In way, perhaps, she is thinking a loud a bit on this thread as part of that process for herself. I can't say; it's just a possibility.

Sure. But I don't see how being open to the possiblity that you are wrong precludes being open to the possibility that you are right. Or thinking that you actually are.


What do you mean by 'fallible'? If you mean 'false', then obviously that statement is false. If you mean 'suspect', then why do you exempt that statement from being fallible? If all you mean is that something might possibly be incorrect, I'd say that every statement, absolute or not, is fallible.


Yes. Something suggested by nearly everyone in this thread, whether they think Tiller's murder was absolutely morally wrong, absolutely morally right, or perceived a conflict between 2 absolute moral principles.


I just defined it for you. You can object to the verbiage all you want, but that doesn't change the concept it represents.

To say 'no human is perfect' assumes an ideal of perfection, which cannot be attained by humans. To say 'all humans are sinners' assumes an ideal of perfection, any violation of which is termed 'a sin', and that humans are incapable of not violating the ideal of perfection, and hence are 'sinners'.

You can try to hair-split and say these two statements aren't exactly identical by noting that sins, as opposed to imperfections, require intent. That doesn't change anything.


Feeling it superior to other opinions just makes it your opinion, not 'correct' or even 'better than'.

For there to be a 'better than', it would have to be 'closer to correct', hence there would have to be a 'correct'.

Holding an opinion means that you think it is correct. Your thoughts on what is correct may not be correct, but that doesn't stop there from being a 'correct' for them to be incorrect about.


In other words, they might be wrong, therefore they are wrong?

yet again, it seems god has claimed another victim via proxy of his evil flock, striking down a man performing a needed and legal service, and was killed all because some small minded, easy deceived fool thought the sun told him to go murder an innocent man. gotta love the Christians!