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I am officially distubed by the truth of U.S healthcare.

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number5
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11 Aug 2011, 8:32 am

Fatal-Noogie wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
I'm acting the way I am because I'm quite frankly I'm pissed off. All of you should know better than to say it's okay to steal from people simply because they have something you don't.

Quite frankly I am more pissed off than you could ever imagine. Legal taxation is not stealing. It is a social contract. Get that through your thick skull.


+1

+2

+3

The people, as a whole and single entity, have a choice - not the individual. We got together and said things like education and defense are good. Roads, infrastructure, basic consumer protections, and a legal system help us all to progress and prosper as a nation. Many of these services need work, but we would be completely lost without them.

I don't like our defense budget. I solidly object to our presence in about 150 countries. But I am a single individual. Unless we all agree to trim it back, it probably will not happen. We should not be so arrogant as to think that our individual preferences should rule the land. Should I cry theft when I see my dollars go towards a war I do not approve of?

Unless you're proposing anarchy, any argument of taxation being theft is BS.



number5
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11 Aug 2011, 8:43 am

Raptor wrote:
Healthcare is a service, not a right. There, that's out of the bag.
Even with that people still get healthcare for free or at reduced prices all the time if they need it.
What do you think medicaid and medicare are for?
Veterans can get it though the VA.
Those programs are far from perfect but on the other hand people aren't being gassed for being sick or injured like some of you are practically making it out to be. :roll:
Let me relate this to you: Last year my dad who was on medicare and medicare only had a major stroke.
Without question or delay they transported him via ambulance to one of the finest medical centers in the state and no expense was spared.
He didn't make it but not for lack of effort from the time the ambulance came until he passed away two days later.
The level of support was awesome and no one but medicare got a bill for it!
I can relate several other stories like this but this one is what came to mind first.
I agree the cost of healthcare is disproportionate to the actual value of the services rendered but I assure you you'll NEVER see some kind of social utopia in this country so forget it.


Sorry for your loss.

I also lost my father, but he did not have any medical coverage (self-employed, didn't qualify). He purchased a child-only policy for me (I was young at the time) but could not afford one for himself. He had pain all the time but was too afraid to get it checked out because if it was something serious, he couldn't afford the treatment. He knew it would have ruined us financially. So he suffered in silence.

The pain and swelling became so serious that he couldn't dress himself. My mom fought with him hard to get him to seek treatment. He still refused, so she dragged him to the ER. The cancer had already propagated throughout his body. They loaded him up with morphine and he died several days later.

With all due respect here, why do you feel that your father had the right to medical care but mine didn't?



ruveyn
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11 Aug 2011, 11:48 am

number5 wrote:

The people, as a whole and single entity, have a choice - not the individual. We got together and said things like education and defense are good. Roads, infrastructure, basic consumer protections, and a legal system help us all to progress and prosper as a nation. Many of these services need work, but we would be completely lost without them.

.


You have just described Mob Rule with a Smile.

ruveyn



marshall
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11 Aug 2011, 12:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
number5 wrote:

The people, as a whole and single entity, have a choice - not the individual. We got together and said things like education and defense are good. Roads, infrastructure, basic consumer protections, and a legal system help us all to progress and prosper as a nation. Many of these services need work, but we would be completely lost without them.

.


You have just described Mob Rule with a Smile.

ruveyn


Yep. Mob rule allowed the human race to move out of caves and forests and do things like build civilizations.



Inuyasha
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11 Aug 2011, 12:21 pm

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
number5 wrote:

The people, as a whole and single entity, have a choice - not the individual. We got together and said things like education and defense are good. Roads, infrastructure, basic consumer protections, and a legal system help us all to progress and prosper as a nation. Many of these services need work, but we would be completely lost without them.

.


You have just described Mob Rule with a Smile.

ruveyn


Yep. Mob rule allowed the human race to move out of caves and forests and do things like build civilizations.


Thank you for proving you don't know anything about history.

Mob rule is what was seen in the French Revolution. Civilization was started by a few individuals that other people then congregrated around, it wasn't started by mob violence and mass hysteria (unless it was individuals getting together to stand against the mobs).



androbot2084
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11 Aug 2011, 12:25 pm

The religious right says healthcare is not a right.



Inuyasha
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11 Aug 2011, 12:33 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says healthcare is not a right.


It isn't a right, we don't see free healthcare for all in the Declaration of Independence, nor do we see it in the US Constitution.

People can choose to be compassionate and help the needy, but you have no right to force people to help other people.



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11 Aug 2011, 12:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says healthcare is not a right.


It isn't a right, we don't see free healthcare for all in the Declaration of Independence, nor do we see it in the US Constitution.

People can choose to be compassionate and help the needy, but you have no right to force people to help other people.


So what happens if we had no taxes and no public services? and not enough people are willing to be compassionate and help? are you advocating that in this situation they just be left to die? Also there are a number of things that are not in the constitution......there is nothing about the government being owned by corporate america or passing laws in their favor but that still goes on and everyone is ok with it.

and How have I given up? maybe you don't care about why you should not tell someone struggling with suicidal depression they have given up after they just explained how they struggle to continue on even with that obstacle...but can I at least have an explination?



Last edited by Sweetleaf on 11 Aug 2011, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

androbot2084
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11 Aug 2011, 12:38 pm

What is wrong with forcing other people to help?



Sweetleaf
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11 Aug 2011, 12:48 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
What is wrong with forcing other people to help?


The only thing I see wrong with it is that someone would be such a pig they have to be forced.



Inuyasha
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11 Aug 2011, 12:48 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
What is wrong with forcing other people to help?


The same thing that is wrong with slavery, or are you saying slavery is okay?



Sweetleaf
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11 Aug 2011, 12:50 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
What is wrong with forcing other people to help?


The same thing that is wrong with slavery, or are you saying slavery is okay?


Oh dear god, yes to expect the wealthy 1% to feed some of this wealth back into the economy is SLAVERY! it don't matter if they have five houses, 50 cars, two private jets, a few nice boats ect.......its slavery I tell you!



number5
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11 Aug 2011, 12:51 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The religious right says healthcare is not a right.


It isn't a right, we don't see free healthcare for all in the Declaration of Independence, nor do we see it in the US Constitution.

People can choose to be compassionate and help the needy, but you have no right to force people to help other people.


Ironically, WWJD?



Inuyasha
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11 Aug 2011, 12:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
What is wrong with forcing other people to help?


The same thing that is wrong with slavery, or are you saying slavery is okay?


Oh dear god, yes to expect the wealthy 1% to feed some of this wealth back into the economy is SLAVERY! it don't matter if they have five houses, 50 cars, two private jets, a few nice boats ect.......its slavery I tell you!


If the wealthy decide to donate to charity, that's their business, and in the US the wealthy often choose to donate lots of money to various charities that they know will manage the money better than Government when it comes to helping the needy.

You have no right to tell a rich person to pay for your new pair of shoes.



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11 Aug 2011, 1:00 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
What is wrong with forcing other people to help?


The same thing that is wrong with slavery, or are you saying slavery is okay?


Oh dear god, yes to expect the wealthy 1% to feed some of this wealth back into the economy is SLAVERY! it don't matter if they have five houses, 50 cars, two private jets, a few nice boats ect.......its slavery I tell you!


If the wealthy decide to donate to charity, that's their business, and in the US the wealthy often choose to donate lots of money to various charities that they know will manage the money better than Government when it comes to helping the needy.

You have no right to tell a rich person to pay for your new pair of shoes.


Yes, while still freaking pushing people out of their homes in the name of gated communities and expensive apartments and hotels.

Also a new pair of shoes and healthcare are two totally different things, if I need shoes there are freaking thrift stores or freaking duct tape.

And a couple of questions.

Do you oppose taxes?

and How have I given up?

You are really good at avoiding questions....should I assume you are trying to bully and attack?



marshall
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11 Aug 2011, 1:09 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
number5 wrote:

The people, as a whole and single entity, have a choice - not the individual. We got together and said things like education and defense are good. Roads, infrastructure, basic consumer protections, and a legal system help us all to progress and prosper as a nation. Many of these services need work, but we would be completely lost without them.

.


You have just described Mob Rule with a Smile.

ruveyn


Yep. Mob rule allowed the human race to move out of caves and forests and do things like build civilizations.


Thank you for proving you don't know anything about history.

Mob rule is what was seen in the French Revolution. Civilization was started by a few individuals that other people then congregrated around, it wasn't started by mob violence and mass hysteria (unless it was individuals getting together to stand against the mobs).


People who get together and set up a political systems, a legal systems, public infrastructure, etc... are examples of mob rule? It's clear you despise the democratic system we live under. Stubborn refusal to set and abide by a common set of rules and share resources in a fair and balanced way is infantile. It's the way a selfish bratty toddler behaves in the sand box. Waaah! Mine Mine Mine!