How can anyone with AS be a conservative?

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Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 12:20 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

While this may affect some rich people (as well as anyone else in the stock market, retirees, etc.), this might not affect Warren Buffett, because if I recall his "capital gains" are through a rather unusual means so they aren't taxed. So this might not affect him either.

I have relatively little interest in the details of other people's financial affairs, but according to your article Buffet pays the 15% capital gains rate on his dividends, so presumably that means taxing capital gains as regular income would bring his rate up to that level. If there is some other accounting trick that Buffet and others are using to avoid paying even capital gains tax, well then we should deal with that as well.

All you are doing if you tax capital gains is discourage investing or encourage companies and their stockholders to head overseas. Additionally there are a lot of people that get capital gains that are not exactly rich.

Also you can bet people like Nancy Pelosi won't be seeing her taxes go up 1 dime even if taxes were raised.

Why wouldn't Pelosi's taxes go up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Because she is in congress and will probably make sure there are loopholes so she can get out of paying the increase in taxes.

Kind of like many of the 1% of very wealthy...oh wait sorry those people are all prime examples of humanity they are honest hard working people who pay their taxes just like the less wealthy citizens.....they don't hire lawyers and other such people to get out of taxes or anything like that.

marshall
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16 Aug 2011, 12:30 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Well how about that. I guess it's true that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again.

You are right that merely increasing marginal tax rates on personal income is not the best way to do things, since wealthy investors will continue to rake in the cash through no actual work. This is why we should get rid of the tax advantages granted to "capital gains" income and treat all income as regular income.

This is only a good idea if Buffett is right and there are no impacts on investment through increases of taxes on investing. If there is a negative impact on investment caused by taxation(you know, the more you tax it, the less people do it) then the idea is idiotic. Investment is a major component of growth(you need it for capital accumulation). It's a terrible idea to act to reduce growth.

The thing is, government cuts also reduce economic growth. From a rational standpoint, almost anything you do to reduce the deficit will have some negative economic impact. You have to consider whether raising capitol gains taxes will have a greater negative impact than other options. I'd argue that capitol gains taxes on individuals are the least economically damaging when compared to personal income taxes, corporate taxes, and government layoffs.

marshall
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16 Aug 2011, 12:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

:?
It seems as though it’s the consensus of the liberals on this forum is that all of the conservatives with Asperger’s have been given special breaks in life or were born into wealthy and/or influential families and never had to struggle.
That we have no concept of struggling, setbacks, depression, disappointment, frustration, etc….
No, the difference is that we’ve either chosen to or been forced by circumstance to charge through and do what must be done to get by ANYWAY!

Nice strawman you got there.

It's not a strawman argument.

One reason I have a profound dislike of the left, is because of their arrogant tendency to talk down to me, and acting like I'm somehow incapable or defective. Conservatives that I have run into over the years, have pushed me to try to overcome my difficulties, they understand that I have problems, but they think I should still strive to do better instead of simply giving up.

So it is ok for you conservatives to make blanket generalizations about 'the left'? but if we mention some of the negative aspects of 'the right' we're all the sudden all a bunch of evil commies who want YOUR money for ourselves or something. And if any of us should have issues that make it very hard to go on in life but are continuing on regardless we have 'given up' unlike you right? Not everyone is going to be on the right deal with it.

I find it ironic that conservatives whine when people call them out for being heartless basterds, yet they are the ones who first personalize the debate, insinuating that liberals are weaklings and whiners, rather than rationally argue their point.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 12:53 pm

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Nice strawman you got there.

Yeah I don't get it....besides everyone has weaknesses even conservatives and for non-whiners many conservatives sure do a lot of whining.

Inuyasha
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16 Aug 2011, 1:02 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Nice strawman you got there.

Yeah I don't get it....besides everyone has weaknesses even conservatives and for non-whiners many conservatives sure do a lot of whining.

I find it interesting that you guys think we should remain silent while you engage in blood libel.

marshall
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16 Aug 2011, 1:19 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Nice strawman you got there.

Yeah I don't get it....besides everyone has weaknesses even conservatives and for non-whiners many conservatives sure do a lot of whining.

I find it interesting that you guys think we should remain silent while you engage in blood libel.

I see, you change the subject with an ad-hominum when you can't reply. Please point out where Sweetleaf engaged in "blood libel" Mrs Palin.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 1:28 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Nice strawman you got there.

Yeah I don't get it....besides everyone has weaknesses even conservatives and for non-whiners many conservatives sure do a lot of whining.

I find it interesting that you guys think we should remain silent while you engage in blood libel.

Who says you and others on the right should remain silent? I strongly support freedom of speech and feel everyone should have the right to state their opinions, debate about them, vote based on them, petition the government based on them ect. are you projecting your own desire for those who oppose you to shut up onto the left? or just trying to demonize people on the left.

Personally I do not feel like my being more on the left than on the right makes me some sort of horrible person...but that is up for debate.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 1:29 pm

marshall wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

AspieRogue wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Nice strawman you got there.

Yeah I don't get it....besides everyone has weaknesses even conservatives and for non-whiners many conservatives sure do a lot of whining.

I find it interesting that you guys think we should remain silent while you engage in blood libel.

I see, you change the subject with an ad-hominum when you can't reply. Please point out where Sweetleaf engaged in "blood libel" Mrs Palin.

I do not know what blood libel is...so an explination might be educational.

visagrunt
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16 Aug 2011, 1:45 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Anecdotes aren't refutations, Orwell. The conclusion that disagrees with his is a direct consequence of economic logic, so all else equal, we should distrust his claim. Particularly given that self-reported behavior or anecdotally observed behavior is unreliable.

However, it is consistent with the tax law principle that, "it never hurts you to earn an extra dollar."

If I have money to invest, I will invest it with a view to earning a return on that investment. While tax will reduce the return that I enjoy, it will not eliminate it, and I am not going to stop investing simply because I have to pay tax on the return, because I am still better off with the after-tax return than I am with sticking my money in a mattress.

The proper economic argument is not that taxation discourages investment--it does no such thing. The proper argument is that tax reduces the amount of capital that investors have available to invest. So the balance must be struck between the amount of taxation that is necessary to fund a functioning government against the amount of capital that needs to be left in the market.

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Last edited by visagrunt on 16 Aug 2011, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 1:55 pm

Raptor wrote:

It seems as though the consensus of the conservatives on this forum is that all the liberals with AS and other issues that interfere with their functioning and productivity should be able to just 'get over it' and move on. With no regards to the fact that you cannot always simply get over things like mental disorders and some obstacles are easier for some to get through than others.

I would not define myself as a liberal but I do lean a bit on the left....but yeah I do, do what must be done to get by....at the moment that=passing my college courses.

Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2011, 2:14 pm

I thought this thread is appropriate to introduce this tidbit:
Rick Perry was telling reporters that it's unfair that we have to pay most taxes, but almost half of people pay no income taxes at all.
It became painfully apparent to me that I, as an American who is much too poor to pay income tax, is being added to that list of other Americans who conservatives demonize in order to get votes from people, either through fear or hatred. In this worldview of Us against them, I and other less "productive citizens" are being added to the list that includes gays, Muslims, and labor union members.
Well, what I think even a pea brain like Governor Perry deep down knows, the rich will never have to worry about eating, having shelter, or medical care due to an income tax. But an income tax hoisted on the less affluent (which Perry seemed to be getting at) would be disastrous for a family like mine.
So much for compassionate conservatism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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16 Aug 2011, 2:57 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I do not know what blood libel is...so an explination might be educational.

An accusation hurled against Jews, accusing them of killing Gentile children to get blood to mix with Matzos for Passover. A calumny. If there is one thing a religion Jew won't do it is eating food mixed with blood. And no religious Jew would kill a child, be he Gentile or not.

ruveyn

Orwell
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16 Aug 2011, 3:16 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Are they being deliberately deceptive or are you and Mr. Buffett being deliberately deceptive. I'm inclined to believe the latter, especially since if Mr. Buffett was promoting a conservative cause instead of a liberal one, you would be jumping all over it and calling him a lieing scumbag.

What the hell are you talking about? I linked to and quoted the primary source in question- Buffet's op-ed in which he was arguing for a change in tax policy. The NY Post article accused Buffet of advocating simply an increase in personal tax income rates that wouldn't severely affect Buffet because he gets his money from capital gains. If you look at the Buffet article that they were attacking, he quite clearly says that the capital gains rate needs to be increased. Your reply doesn't even make sense. Warren Buffet's editorial is lying about what it says? Just read it, for crying out loud. Any literate individual should be able to figure out what he's saying.

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Kraichgauer
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16 Aug 2011, 3:37 pm

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Inuyasha not making sense? Stop the presses!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Inuyasha
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16 Aug 2011, 3:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Inuyasha not making sense? Stop the presses!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

And Buffett's credibility is in question, so why should I care what he is advocating for when it won't affect him, but will hurt his competitors.

Sweetleaf
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16 Aug 2011, 4:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I do not know what blood libel is...so an explination might be educational.

Damn that is a heavy accusation, I hope I have not done any of that.

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