Misogyny/MRA is a sign of weakness

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The mistake is to assume men having to pay child support has something to do with feminism. The problem is the frailty of the "nuclear family" which is but an ad-hoc invention of the industrial revolution. It's hardly "traditional" when you really think of it. It's just nice and convenient for our corporate overlords who need "labor mobility".


And that's all the fault of feminism.


Why the hell do we need high birthrates when there is high unemployment? Why do we need to keep spreading our seed? I think our society is screwed and bound for collapse no matter what. I vote for voluntary human extinction. Nobody should be allowed to reproduce. The 1950s aren't coming back. Those were exceptional times. We are so blind we no longer know what "traditional" even means. A truly traditional society would be an agrarian society. We don't have that anymore and there's no going back.


And the need for two incomes and longer and longer hours despite technological advances that should mean less work is required is who's fault? Who are the ones laughing all the way to the bank?

@ Kurgan, How do you know what motivates her? Also, queers have different standards of attractiveness to you lot. Not everything revolves around straight men. That could also just be a particularly unflattering photo, too. She probably scrubs up okay - I know I do - ('scrubs up' is a British term for grooming and putting on nice clothes, in case anyone gets confused.)

Assuming that radical feminist are jealous of 'pretty' girls is as dumb as assuming that all MRAs are jealous of alpha males.

Also, Dworkin is generally much misunderstood. People look at her and then read misquotations and get an overblown impression of her as the ultimate feminazi. I'm not saying I agree with her on anything but people are quite shallow on both sides.

Also, Emma Watson isn't womanly enough for me (too childlike). I'm not a bloke though, so I don't need them to look young. I try to listen to people's arguments rather than going off what they look like and assuming their motivations from that.

I get the impression that both the butch lesbian and the hairdresser guy with the gay lisp is a myth. Some lesbians like to take the traditional male role in a relationship whereas others take the female role, though.

Dressing her up would make her look like a dressed up Mikey Teutul: Not particularly feminine. Google "Ane Kristine Aadland", and you'll see why she's pissed of.



I never said all feminists were. The ugly and masculine ones who think they'll finally get laid once playboy and Hooters are gone are, though. Likewise, some MRAs (eg. TheAmazingAtheist) are envious of more attractive men (and like Andrea Dworkin, he's no oil painting).



She's roughly my age, so I disagree.



Wanting women to have the same oportunities as men is not the same as vandalizing sex shops and protesting against Hooters, something the feminist I posted a picture of has done. There are pretty women who are feminists, but I've never seen one that wants to ban pornography altogether.

TheAmazingAtheist is not an MRA. I don't always agree with him but his criticisms are generally reasonable. If you filter out the swearing and silliness in his videos he isn't unreasonable or bitter. He's said some stupid things regarding rape victims but I just attribute that to being clueless or trying to stir controversy.

I don't blame feminism for the entirety of those things but it certainly played some role. One should objective and admit there are some negative albeit unintended consequences of all the advancements women have made, sometimes you go too far. I do not think you'll win many fans arguing against the idea of the nuclear or traditional family, being a single parent is not preferable would you agree? What is really the alternative? I don't think where we are trending is a good place. 'And before you say anything about LGBT, I want them invited into the fold and for them to have families just like straight couples.

Birthrates below replacement level pose a lot of problems beyond just simply continuing the gene pool. I know you are a big believer in social safety nets, how are they to survive with more and more burden being put on working people? Young people will put in far more than they'll receive back from future generations. Would I be wrong to categorize you as a misanthrope? I agree we're heading for collapse and honestly it may be too late save it but that's not a world I want to leave for our future.

I wasn't blaming feminism for the fact that most families now need two incomes to survive to make that clear, I was just lamenting at how that role is held in such ill regard and that unattainable for most peoples anyways. Our rulers have robbed us blind, most people don't understand how bad things are. Imagine what our country would look like with one income homes and without goods made from slave labor in China or Bangladesh.

I hear he likes bananas

So what? There were "bad things" about society prior to the women's rights movement.

Who gets to decide what "bad things" are acceptable?



Extended families, which are actually much more "traditional" than "nuclear families.



Still not the fault of "feminism."

And I couldn't care less if the human race becomes extinct. I'd rather that happen than live in a society where people are required to breed for the "good of humanity."

I think the "nuclear family" is a horrible thing to base financial survival on. People are not meant to work in lone pairs or by themselves, ruthlessly competing against all the others for limited scraps (modern capitalism). People are supposed to work together in larger groups. I'm criticizing the "nuclear family" as a financial entity. Financial insecurity makes divorce more bitter than it has to be.

If people don't want government social safety nets and the wealthier and more able among us feel zero obligation to help out with the less well off, then we are heading for collapse. The problem with charity is there is no obligation. People give less when more is needed. Society will collapse if people continue to act like greedy selfish narcissistic apes who believe they have no obligation to their neighbor other than "charity".

I also don't think we have to depend on slave labor. Our government allows slave labor because it is owned by the wealthy who benefit from it and people are too stupid to make a fuss.

You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. These civil rights movements are not infallible, they can go too far and they can have unintended consequences but it's not PC to say this and those who still scream victimization are completely unwilling to hear it.

You are confusing correlation with causation. She looks not ugly, but like she doesn't give a damn about her appearance. If she did what most modern women feel compelled to do: diet; use cosmetics; bleach, pluck, or shave unwanted hair; style her hair; etc, etc, etc - there would be nothing 'unfeminine' or intrinsically 'ugly' for you to seize upon. I imagine that her entire goal is to make a world where women do not have to do those things in order to be judged as people.

If this is her goal, then she is not understanding very well what freedom means. The traditional feminism has fought for the women's rights and freedom. But it looks like the new feminists didn't get what this freedom guarantees.

Freedom guarantees that you can do or look whatever you like (as long as you don't make any damage) and there's not gonna be retaliation for it. It guarantees that nobody can harm you because of it. And that's all. Freedom guarantees your safety to make your own choices. And nothing more.

Freedom means that if you choose to look someway (like this woman in the picture), this is nobody's businness. So you have the right to be free of any kind of harassment. That's OK. But that's all.

Freedom doesn't mean people has to like you whatever you look. If we're talking about love, freedom doens't mean that you can do whatever you want and you still has to be judged as attractive and successful with the opposite sex. Freedom guarantees you to be free of negative judgements because of your personal choices, but it doesn't guarantee you to get possitive ones. Many feministis still didn't get that.

You know some queers don't go for that whole stereotyped male/female role thing. Hell, some straight relationships don't even work that way. Not everyone has this monochrome view of gender and sexuality.

IMO, scrubbing her up would make her look like an average woman who's a bit fat. Nothing unusually masculine about that. Probably even some men would find her acceptably attractive. You seem to think women who aren't attractive to you are lacking in womanhood.





Get laid once playboy and Hooters are gone, seriously? Again, some people aren't interested in having sex with the kind of men (and women, I guess) who go to Hooters, anyway. They're not trying to close strip clubs to get laid, they're trying to close them because they think (perhaps wrongly) that such things create a sexist culture that encourages violence and contempt for women. Why don't you actually address that argument rather than just about their levels of sexual confidence?
It's not hard to do. There's enough evidence out there that porn in particular doesn't encourage sexual violence and even decreases it - though I do think rad fems are right on the strip club thing because they've shown me evidence and the other side hasn't yet. I don't campaign to have strip clubs shut down because I think that creates a backlash and because I haven't been totally convinced either way, yet. But again, I deal with arguments, not looks.

Also, MRAs are fundamentally right on things like child custody and the male mental illness epidemic - I even think feminism makes a mistake for not addressing these issues - but I disagree with them that feminism itself is necessarily to blame for their woes. I don't care how hot the guys are when they make these arguments, just whether they can make them effectively.



She's not much younger than me, but she looks 18. Not my kind of thing - possibly because I don't need women to look like they're at their peak of fertility.



Who care if the ones you deem pretty are into banning porn altogether? There are ones you'd probably deem ugly and masculine who are all sex positive and are in porn themselves. Also, there are probably straight conventionally feminine women who hate porn and would like it banned altogether - I've met quite a few. In my experience, they don't voice this opinion out loud to men or make it into a political stance because they think (rightly) that this would damage their attractiveness to the opposite sex. They tell me though because they think I'm a safe pair of ears. Those anti-porn feminists you deem ugly have less to lose because they're not at all interested in men who like porn, anyway.

FWIW, I like some porn and you'd probably think I'm ugly and masculine. I'm not just saying that out of insecurity; I actually have excess androgens. I even like some porn probably because I am quite masculine and the testosterone in my body makes my sexuality a bit more like a man's. I am critical of the porn industry but I get the need to look at dirty pictures and videos totally. Is your mind blown by my existence, yet?

You didn't read LKL correctly. She said a a world where women do not HAVE to do those things. HAVE is the important part. Women can still do all the grooming that is now mandatory, they just won't have to. There was nothing in there about getting positive reactions.

Also, why are you assuming the woman in that picture wants positive reactions to her looks? It's possible that she couldn't care less about that.

Then where's the bloody problem??? Look at the picture. She is the best evidence that she DOESN'T HAVE to. So what's the f*****g claiming about?

She probably gets harassment for falling outside the female standard of beauty. I know I do and I don't even look that butch. All I have to do is wear a check shirt, jeans and a leather jacket with no make-up and it's a guarantee that someone will make a nasty comment if I happen to be in their vicinity. I can't go swimming without a hell of a lot of shaving if I don't want to be mercilessly slated. Women still HAVE to conform to those ideal, or face name-calling in public places. That's her problem. That's what she's fighting.