School shooting in CT

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Dont go to Israel or Thailand then cause its now quite common. Terrorism from affected minority's is the cause in these countries

All these school shootings [including ALL USA school shootings] have in common is terrorism

Disturbed individuals with political agendas.

Adams mom pumped him up with political BS

What a revelation to know America will one day resemble the Left Bank. It's what I always envisioned for our great nation. NOT!

What's your point here? If a medical device existed that was as useful and universally applicable for first aid as a gun is for self defense that was as convenient to carry existed, I'm sure people would carry it, but no such thing exists and so we don't. I myself actually do have some advanced first aid training from some time ago, and more Americans than you probably think have CPR cards. All of that is irrelevant though, as it has no bearing whatsoever on the efficacy of gun laws, which is nil.

Well, all I'm hearing is ' I want to be protected ' but absolutely no intention of using first aid and medical equipment. So, people are purchasing, training and equipping weapons intentionally without the skills to save life. Isn't that a contradiction? All too happy to fire fire fire, but when there's blood everywhere and people are screaming to death, do these vigilantes know what to do? Nope.

It's a lovely well rounded excuse for buying guns and equipping them.

When it's vigilante vs perpetrator someone's going to get shot, and somebody will need emergency life saving treatment. So who's going to step in and save a life? All too happy to act cop, but paramedic? No, let's leave that to the professionals.

Pathetic.



So a gun is a device? No, it requires bullets.
Now, you want to compare bullets to medical equipment? There are wound dressings, bandages, sterile pads, gloves, face masks, gauze pads, cleansing wipes, defibrillator - and those are the most basic, primary, fundamental equipment. Now I don't know how much bullets cost, but I bloody hope they should be expensive, because all that medical equipment is as cheap as chips. Proper usage of that equipment is basic and fundamental and every human being should be able to know how to use them promptly & confidently.



How advanced? Can you take blood pressures, or simply emergency life skills?



Cards! Cards! Christ, you f*****g need to act on instinct for CPR, not hang-on-just-reading-the-card, if you're starting CPR then the heart has already stopped - they're dead already. Just get on with it FFS, and get as much help as possible, as soon as possible. Cards...Christ.



Not quite. The general excuse of requiring protection is proved as false, since the standard of first aid in such situations is less of that of an eight year old. Bloody hell. Shooting around without a hope of saving anyone.

I posted this in the other thread (so many threads on the same subject!)

All Israeli's over the age of 18 must serve in the military and are trained to handle weapons, such as the one shown in the picture. Males serve 3 years, females serve 2 years. In the US, most teachers have not served in the military and couldn't tell you the difference between an AK-47 and an M1911. We could train them to handle guns, but a 2 week course on how to handle a pistol is no where near the amount of training that the teacher in the image received and teachers are already undertrained to do their real job as it is. Not to mention they're also underpaid (and facing more salary cuts), work long days and have very large class sizes. All it takes is one student to overpower the teacher (fairly easy for the typical male high school student) to take away their concealed weapon.

----

Now, I'm all for gun rights, but I wouldn't trust most of my teachers with a BBgun. I also wouldn't trust any student to be in the same room as a gun.

That part in bold is a figment of your imagination, no one is saying or has said that. Also, there is no requirement that martial skills must be accompanied by medical skills, that's just a personal opinion of yours that you're trying to inject here and use as some sort of moral club because you haven't got anything else. You're also making a big assumption about US gun owners, one that you can't back up.

Also, the word "vigilante" doesn't mean what you think it means.




Not wanting to be dependent on a government agency that may be some distance away when facing an immediate threat is now an "excuse"?



Still haven't gotten around to looking up the meanings of the words you use I see. Also still using unfounded assumptions and naked assertion to buttress a weak argument as well. This is quickly getting repetitious.



Self observation?



How is this even relevant to anything? It's a mechanical object, a linear accelerator, a tool, a weapon, a device for using a chemical decomposition to accelerate a projectile and fling it along a parabolic path. What kind of straw-grasping is this?



Where am I comparing bullets to medical equipment? What I said is that medical equipment is not comparable to firearms because a firearm is a simple device that's convenient to carry and universally applicable to a specific situation, where as medical equipment is not. Do YOU carry all that equipment on your person? If not, who are you to judge others who do not?



Really? A defibrillator is "cheap as chips"? Bullets are mostly cheap too, because they're simple and made from base materials; hell, I make my own at home. The real question is why you think bullets "should" be expensive because medical equipment is "cheap" by your standards; what's the relationship?




What does it matter? Just because it will throw a monkey wrench in your game, I'll tell you that I can take blood pressure, as a matter of fact my wife is a nurse, and my first aid skills, though a bit rusty, are pretty good overall. I'm not an EMT, but I can stabilize someone until they get there.




Going off half cocked again? You really need to Google before you try and snark. In the US, a CPR card is a certification card, not a cue card you read off of. You have to take classes to get one, and take periodic refresher courses.



I would say that the only thing at an eight year old's skill level here is the "logic" in that bold statement, but I wouldn't want to insult the eight year olds in the audience.

At first it was this but then...


Exactly. I mean humanity is overrated right?
I haven't seen/read any pro-gun deniers defend the fact they see themselves as judge, jury and executioner in such circumstance and then expect to be treated as hero, as multiple pro-gun deniers keep saying that they would of shot the shooter first...what then? Leave him to die on the floor? Manslaughter at the minimum, Murder charge definitely.



Moral club? Surely a human life is worth saving? Or do you disagree?
My arguments have stacked up and stand tall. Every other developed nation on Earth also agrees with my arguments and have done the right thing. Guns kill people. Ban them. All of them.
All you have is excuse after excuse for keeping them, because that's all the pro-gun deniers can do. They can't stand the fact that guns kill people. It's funny, if not tragically sad that in about three months without the President taking action that more lives will be lost by mass murder shooting. Sixty two mass murders in 30 years, and yet you defend each and every one of them...I mean, clearly, you don't value life, you value the gun.



True, but my money is safe on the bet I'm right. I mean, how many children were saved? How many could be saved?
And if they could not be saved, why not? I'm putting my money on how many bullets were fired at them.
Go on, get squeamish. Facts are facts. This is what guns do, fire bullets into people. Blood is shed, people die. Unnecessarily.
I heard on the news, so not confirmed, but over ONE HUNDRED ROUNDS (What is that, ten bullets per round?) were fired, against how many children?


" Vigilantes typically see government as ineffective in enforcing the law; and such individuals often presume to justify their actions as fulfillment of the wishes of "the community". "

I think that's quite clear. It's already been expressed that pro-gun deniers are generally paranoid of the police (Don't know why) and see themselves as the police, when they are not. Vigilante is the exact word to describe this mentality.




Can you imagine when the "threat" doesn't have a gun? What then, shoot anyway?
Government agency also covers the Paramedic/Ambulance service, what about providing emergency treatment to those that need it?


[b]Vigilantes typically see government as ineffective in enforcing the law; and such individuals often presume to justify their actions as fulfillment of the wishes of "the community".[/b]
That's your entire argument.


Weak argument? Children have died and you're defending the very things that killed them! That's ridiculous. Go and speak to the parents, say it wasn't the bullets fired from firearms that killed there children. Go on. If you think defending life is so "weak" go and speak to those parents and say "nah, the bullets that didn't kill them" Pathetic.



BS! ONCE AGAIN!
No you did not.
I quote the EXACT wording:

Does that match what you've posted above? No. Clear and simple.
Now resorting lies is desperate.



I do. And in supply as well. Ready to help save lives wherever, whenever.




Nicely done, pick the most expensive item on the list, but then most public places have at least one. How much is a Bushmaster again?



Er, obvious? Bullets kill people. Medical equipment saves them. How much is a life priced at? A cent?



What game? I'm trying to ban guns that kill. That's pretty serious.



Card? You mean a certificate, just for CPR which is for when they're already dead.



Funny. But I've seen eight year old's that show the skill required to save someone from bleeding to death, something I very much doubt a pro-gun denier could do. After all they've done there part and "eliminated" the "threat".

You see, it's the American mentality that's the problem. I'm beginning to realize they don't want to change from using the gun. So more will die from the gun. That's the American way.

/\ /\
You don't know when to quit, do you?
There's wrong then there's obnoxiously wrong.

You're not going to find anyone in their right mind trying to neutralize an active shooter on a spree with anything rubber.


That picture is in Israel. You're saying that you'd rather see a terrorist come in and kill those kids than have an armed teacher that is willing to protect them. You're whole song and dance about saving lives just flew out the window. No, I take that back. You threw it out the window.

Your words a few posts ago:

i know you think my specialized school police idea is to expensive however think about this.

if we armed teachers we would have to pay for there guns,memberships to gun ranges,gun safety coarses,ammunition and we would have to up there salary's because of the new skills and training they would now have.any given school would have anywhere from 15 in a small town elementary school to 100's of teachers in a city high school.

however you would never need more then maybe 5 or 6 armed guards or school police,just one per entrance.and these specialist could be trained at the state police academies where they would get the best training

i would accept such a sacrifice of liberty only if it garunteed long term security of liberty.
but like i said in my slippery slop post,trusting the goverment to keep such a bargain is foolish.once you give up some liberty soon you will loose all.

but who wouldnt want to sacrifice some liberty if it garunteed more long term liberty,however thats not how the world works

Her guns were only a source. Even if it did lead up to what happened it's also leading up to intrusive scrutiny and an attack on gun owners in general.

No, I said to lift the "gun free" zone status to allow any school employees to carry their concealed handguns if they have a CCW permit and if they chose to. Most probably won't chose to.
It costs the school board nothing.

ok,i misunderstood.i think teachers should have the right to carry if they so choose.many teachers now carry anyway

You'll sacrifice only to sacrifice again and again. History is full of examples.
There have already been sacrifices like I listed before and now you want........more sacrifices.