Misogyny/MRA is a sign of weakness

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Greb
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26 May 2013, 6:55 am

puddingmouse wrote:

Greb wrote:

Then where's the bloody problem??? Look at the picture. She is the best evidence that she DOESN'T HAVE to. So what's the f***ing claiming about?

She probably gets harassment for falling outside the female standard of beauty. I know I do and I don't even look that butch. All I have to do is wear a check shirt, jeans and a leather jacket with no make-up and it's a guarantee that someone will make a nasty comment if I happen to be in their vicinity. I can't go swimming without a hell of a lot of shaving if I don't want to be mercilessly slated. Women still HAVE to conform to those ideal, or face name-calling in public places. That's her problem. That's what she's fighting.

Oh! C'mon!. Look at this guys, do you think they enjoy a bucolic and free of harassment life? Do you think that they wouldn't be slated when going swimming?

Yeap, it's true. If you look ugly, you will be slated. Welcome to the World.

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26 May 2013, 6:56 am

Yeah, the idea is to create a world where 'ugly' people can go about their daily lives without putting up with s**t. That's kind of the point in having ideals - changing the world.

And the second guy is very cute.

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Greb
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26 May 2013, 6:59 am

puddingmouse wrote:

Yeah, the idea is to create a world where 'ugly' people can go about their daily lives without putting up with sh**. That's kind of the point in having ideals - changing the world.

Yeap, but I'm a bit sick of those ideals translated in blaming MEN instead of BULLIES.

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26 May 2013, 7:02 am

Greb wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Yeah, the idea is to create a world where 'ugly' people can go about their daily lives without putting up with sh**. That's kind of the point in having ideals - changing the world.

Yeap, but I'm a bit sick of those ideals translated in blaming MEN instead of BULLIES.

Bullies are the main issue, but gender stereotypes are one more weapon for them to use.

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Greb
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26 May 2013, 7:10 am

puddingmouse wrote:

Greb wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

Yeah, the idea is to create a world where 'ugly' people can go about their daily lives without putting up with sh**. That's kind of the point in having ideals - changing the world.

Yeap, but I'm a bit sick of those ideals translated in blaming MEN instead of BULLIES.

Bullies are the main issue, but gender stereotypes are one more weapon for them to use.

And here it comes again. The problem is somebody (men or woman, women bully too) is harassing a person, that can be a man or a woman (men get bullied and harassed too)... and then, abracadabra!!, it's again machismo and men to blame.

Something unfair happens in this world, and hoop!! ! suddenly it's men's fault and their patriarchal society.

Honestly, sick of that, enough is enough. :thumbdown:

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26 May 2013, 7:38 am

^ Did I say I blame men? I said gender stereotypes. Women do gender stereotyping, too.

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Greb
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26 May 2013, 7:53 am

puddingmouse wrote:

^ Did I say I blame men? I said gender stereotypes. Women do gender stereotyping, too.

Ok. You take this girl, she's gonna be slatered because her look:

[img][800:652]http://g.api.no/obscura/API/image/r1/escenic/978x1200r/1262897969/archive/02990/Ane_Krisitne_Aadla_2990182a.jpg[/img]

Now you take this guy... and it happens exactly the same!

So what's about gender here? Because I don't see any f*****g difference. Both genders look ugly, both genders get harassed. So, what's the point here with gender? why not racial stereotypes? Because from what I see, what makes the difference is not the gender, but in this case, the weight.

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26 May 2013, 8:09 am

Those are just two people. When I get harassed it's not because I look ugly because I don't really - I'm quite well-groomed and have an attractive face. I get harassed because I'm not dressing or acting in a typically feminine way - that's due to gender stereotypes. If a guy gets made fun of if he takes off his shirt and is not muscular, or if he's wearing a floral shirt or whatever, then he's a victim of gender stereotypes, too.

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puddingmouse
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26 May 2013, 8:16 am

The women in this list would probably be harassed for being masculine: http://www.afterellen.com/people/2007/7 ... page=1%2C0

But they are actually very attractive not at all ugly. Gender stereotypes again.

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thomas81
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26 May 2013, 8:17 am

What components of feminism would be resented by sexually frustrated male 'losers'?

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thomas81
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26 May 2013, 8:23 am

puddingmouse wrote:

This is why I find it difficult to agree with the premise suggested by the OP. By all accounts, I was once a sexually frustrated 'loser guy' but i still advocated feminism because I regarded feminists as being allies against the status quo.

Your point is why I always hated patriarchy. I am attracted to many women who don't necessarilly conform to gender stereotypes or cliches about what is considered popularly attractive. It tried to disuade me from openly declaring my attraction for women who do not fit within the blonde haired, size zero barbie doll stereotype.

It also worth remembering that effeminate, cross dressing or gender ambiguous men are also victims of contemporary gender power relations.

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Greb
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26 May 2013, 8:32 am

puddingmouse wrote:

This is not about gender. If you look different from most of the people in your group, you get harassed. If you're a woman dressing as a man, you get harassed. If you're a WASP dressing as a gangsta bro, you get harassed. If you're 60 years old and you're dressing as a teenager, you get harassed. If you live in our decade and you dress as you lived in 70s, you get harassed. If you go out to a Pub a Friday night and you dress as you were in Hawaii, you get harassed. If you walk naked in the promenade, you get harassed. If you use a plantpot as a hat, you get harassed.

This is not about f*****g genders. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't rotate around women that don't care to look feminine enough.

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26 May 2013, 8:35 am

Butch women aren't dressing like men, they're dressing like themselves. I'm only slightly masculine (I don't even look like a butch lesbian) and the problem people have with me is my lack of gender conformity. If you can't see how that is related to gender, then I don't see the point in arguing with you. To me, it obviously is related to gender. We'll just have to disagree.

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thomas81
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26 May 2013, 8:37 am

Greb wrote:

This is not about gender. If you look different from most of the people in your group, you get harassed. If you're a woman dressing as a man, you get harassed. If you're a WASP dressing as a gangsta bro, you get harassed. If you're 60 years old and you're dressing as a teenager, you get harassed. If you live in our decade and you dress as you lived in 70s, you get harassed. If you go out to a Pub a Friday night and you dress as you were in Hawaii, you get harassed. If you walk naked in the promenade, you get harassed. If you use a plantpot as a hat, you get harassed.

This is not about f***ing genders. I'm sorry, but the world doesn't rotate around women that don't care to look feminine enough.

I think you're completely missing the point. Yes both genders get made fun of for being ugly but in the context of a bunch of men sniggering at butch or un-feminine women it is sinister on more than one level as they are enforcing gender specific roles and objectifying women that they should be waif like barbie doll figures.

No ugly guy is ever going to be raped for dressing in a 'revealing way' only to be told it was his own fault for dressing in a provocative way even though society enforced him to dress that way in the first place.

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puddingmouse
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26 May 2013, 8:37 am

Greb wrote:

I'm sorry, but the world doesn't rotate around women that don't care to look feminine enough.

I never said it does. Feminine enough for who, though? Sexist people? Exactly.

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26 May 2013, 8:39 am

Jacoby wrote:

You don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water. These civil rights movements are not infallible, they can go too far and they can have unintended consequences but it's not PC to say this and those who still scream victimization are completely unwilling to hear it.

And?

There were "bad things" and "unintended consequences" of the social systems the aforementioned civil rights movements fought against.

I don't see how one is inherently any worse than the other. I prefer to identify inequities in the system and work to rectify them as opposed to playing the blame game and assigning fault.

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