Trump Derangement Syndrome

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I agree that the argument for Mexicans taking jobs that Americans don't want is complicated and even difficult. Let's hash it out, respectfully.

Mexicans, and I mean Mexican Mexicans to be clear, do lots of different jobs in America. They used to do a lot more, but the immigration people stopped turning a blind eye to ranches that employed large numbers of them. I know this personally, as I know the situation in kitchens. Kitchens got hit hard with raids, and today there are very few kitchens in Texas without I-9s on file for all workers. As far as I know, this is a national phenomenon.

In farm work and construction, things went a different route. Day labor. Really hard to regulate, unless you intend to make it illegal for people to give each other cash.

Good farm workers have more or less steady jobs, but it isn't in conditions or pay that you or I would like. Some Americans would do the job, and some indeed do. If you can't live near decent people, for example. I'm sure the Mexicans love that. My point is, this isn't some abstract numbers of jobs stolen. It's people who make the best choice they can. Some people are caught in a bind between exploiting vulnerable people or trying to sell lettuce for two bucks a head. Lots of them voted for Trump. I know them by virtue of living in the same community, not personally. I don't quite know how they plan to gain.

Would you pay enough for lettuce to raise the wages high enough to pay Americans to harvest it? It takes a lot of people, really it does. You can name a few who would do it, although they would take months to get up to speed. Mexicans farm workers are skilled workers. They just have very low wage skills. Try it, just try it if you doubt me.

Edit: the robots can't harvest lettuce, yet (serious). The Mexicans keep sabatoging the technology (joke).

I hadn't thought about the migrant farm workers in rural areas where there's not many Americans holding up 'will work for food' signs.

Forced relocation of urban populations to the countryside?

I have a hard time having sympathy for businesses that employ illegals and say "they do jobs Americans don't want." So often that just means that the work is exploitative, low paying, and back breaking. I feel sorry for the migrant farm workers whenever I see them, it really feels like you have went back to the Antebellum South when you drive around these fields. They grow a ton of cotton out here by the way, one of the Five Cs.

I am not worried about farm fields going dry, if the corporate farms can't maintain a profit then they should go out of business. Sell the farm. How do you think these farms were employing before this huge wave of illegal immigration? They simpy cannot raise prices a 1000% like they try to scare people, sure I'd pay more for lettuce tho if it meant this country was free of the exploitation of illegal immigrant labor.

It's such a weird dichotomy that the left has where it defends illegal immigrant labor and but then demands a $15 minimum wage. I think most are guided by pure emotion rather than actually thinking things out.

The farmers are in a bind. They will just respond to market forces, charging the highest price and paying the lowest wages possible. That usefulness of that particular simplification of the economy ends there. They have no market power, really, and sell to the large processors at whatever price is on offer.

No one likes the current situation, but it's the situation until the market forces change. Food prices are historically low, worldwide, and I think we should maintain the power to feed ourselves and Mexico, since we can't feed ourselves without them at this point.

15 an hour is robot operator wages if we intend to have US grown vegetables, so the system creates a paradox, and we need better robots, which will destroy even more middle class jobs. Backwards is not the way to be looking, in my considered opinion.

Trump is a hypocrite. He wants to build a wall, deport illegals, etc.. yet he has used illegals for cheap labor for many many years! Hell.. he even had some of his campaign stuff made overseas! Why is this crap somehow alright when he does it, but not others do? He's going to keep doing it too because he knows the loopholes and will likely create more. Bringing jobs back here is a good idea, but corrupt con-man Trump likely wont add many permanent jobs. Look at all the pipelines- most of them add a few temporary jobs and that's about it. Plus how much taxpayer money will be used to fix leaks? There's many many pipeline leaks that haven't even been cleaned up yet!

Also- Americans paying for the wall, then "Mexico paying us back" with that proposed tax on products from Mexico is hurtful to USA! We have to spend more on products just because Trump has the insane idea to build an expensive wall. Plus employers will just fly illegals in like they have before (Trump as another example of this- he's done it and will likely do it again!). Not everyone is made of money, so this proposed tax just makes it even harder for people to live on. Sorry but it's not simple for everyone to just "get a job and keep it" especially in certain regions. It's not their own fault a lot of the time- but the rich snobs love to think many poor people are lazy. So untrue! Plus minimum wage is a joke and should be higher, no excuses.

Many people always say "buy American, support American products", that's fine and all.. but most people don't do it! The rich elite (Trump and friends, many politicians, big oil, etc) don't do it. Celebrities don't do it either much. People are too addicted to their food made in other countries, cars, alcohol, clothing and so on.

Mexico just mentioned that they might stop importing Midwest corn.If they decide they don't want anymore US rice that will severely harm the agri business in my state.We export around a billion dollars worth of rice a year,much going to Mexico.Take that away and there will be lots of broke farmers here.

The farmers aren't dirt farmers on their family plot, I think most agriculture in this country is own by large corporations or concentrated in the hands of a few which makes these exploitative practices all the more worse. People say go after the employers and they should but the only way to make a dent in the practice is to turn off the spigot of unlimited illegal immigrant labor because then it's just a game of who gets caught. When they say like 40% of agriculture is support by illegal labor it's absolute joke, we are supposed to feel dependent on criminals? It's never going to get fixed on its own, it is essentially the same argument used for the continuation of slavery. I believe some rich people who have built their empire on exploitation deserve to be ruined and I don't fear it because I believe that creates opportunity for others who do follow the rules to pick up slack, that would be economic fairness to me.

I think sometimes the answers to things can be very simple yet be emotionally upsetting to some, emotional arguments can be genuine in how they feel to the individual but they are not always correct and genuine emotional arguments can be made on both sides on many issues.