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ObamaGate is getting big

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funeralxempire
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07 May 2019, 12:56 am

JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


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07 May 2019, 1:16 am

funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


Thank you, sir. 8)


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07 May 2019, 3:47 am

funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I believe the inference is that Kraichgauer is too factually wrong and delusional himself to credibly comment on or call out such. The pot calling the kettle black.



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07 May 2019, 3:59 am

EzraS wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I believe the inference is that Kraichgauer is too factually wrong and delusional himself to credibly comment on or call out such. The pot calling the kettle black.


I let you keep on believing that.


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EzraS
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07 May 2019, 4:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I believe the inference is that Kraichgauer is too factually wrong and delusional himself to credibly comment on or call out such. The pot calling the kettle black.


I let you keep on believing that.


I was merely interpreting the implication.



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07 May 2019, 11:18 am

funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I think they are both factually wrong a great percentage of the time. But that's the nature of partisans. They have to filter reality through their political ideology.

I have no ill-will for either of them; I'm merely stating my opinion.

For the record, Obamagate is every bit as much a conspiracy theory as Russigate.


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funeralxempire
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07 May 2019, 11:32 am

EzraS wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I believe the inference is that Kraichgauer is too factually wrong and delusional himself to credibly comment on or call out such. The pot calling the kettle black.


There's an order of magnitude between them, in terms of how often and how objectively and factually incorrect their incorrect statements are. If this is the pot calling the kettle, the pot is a silvery grey and the kettle is vantablack.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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07 May 2019, 11:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
EzraS wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:


Really? Kraichgauer has a long and proud history of calling out the delusions of many a deluded poster, including your boy Darmok.


I believe the inference is that Kraichgauer is too factually wrong and delusional himself to credibly comment on or call out such. The pot calling the kettle black.


There's an order of magnitude between them, in terms of how often and how objectively and factually incorrect their incorrect statements are. If this is the pot calling the kettle, the pot is a silvery grey and the kettle is vantablack.


Bill has been pushing the Russiagate hoax for 3 years. Darmok has wishful thinking that the Obama administration will face punishment for their part in trying to stop Trump from reaching office.


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funeralxempire
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07 May 2019, 12:23 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
For the record, Obamagate is every bit as much a conspiracy theory as Russigate.


Calling things even is only honest when things actually are even. One of these so-called conspiracies has already seen people convicted for their connections to it; the other one is a boogieman spawned by the same brain trusts who invented Pizzagate as a deflection from the other so Trump's supporters can pretend like the real criminals are working against them and their Dear Leader.

Perhaps all of the evidence for Obamagate is just locked away inside the basement of Comet Ping Pong.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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07 May 2019, 12:30 pm

Yet, there is still zero evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, or that Russian meddling had any real impact on our election. It's been nothing more than a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real discussion that needs to take place.


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funeralxempire
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07 May 2019, 12:34 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Yet, there is still zero evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, or that Russian meddling had any real impact on our election. It's been nothing more than a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real discussion that needs to take place.


I don't really disagree with the later, I don't believe Russian involvement was a decisive factor even if it was undeniably a factor.

The former seems untrue, but perhaps you've read the entire Mueller report and reached that conclusion instead of just repeating it because you like how it sounds. Whether or not their cooperation reached to the extent of criminality, to insist that no collusion whatsoever occurred seems to be a stretch.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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07 May 2019, 1:15 pm

If the Mueller report eventually is released, and it provides the evidence that collusion or meddling in U.S. election took place, then I'll be happy to acknowledge it. Until then, it will continue to a huge distraction from our real problems -- like Trump himself.


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07 May 2019, 1:38 pm

Comey should be one of the first ones to go to jail.

James Comey is in trouble and he knows it

James Comey’s planet is getting noticeably warmer. Attorney General William Barr’s emissions are the suspected cause.

Barr has made plain that he intends to examine carefully how and why Comey, as FBI director, decided that the bureau should investigate two presidential campaigns and if, in so doing, any rules or laws were broken.

In light of this, the fired former FBI director apparently has decided that photos of him on Twitter standing amid tall trees and in the middle of empty country roads, acting all metaphysical, is no longer a sufficient strategy.

No, Comey has realized, probably too late, that he has to try to counter, more directly, the narrative being set by the unsparing attorney general whose words in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee last week landed in the Trump-opposition world like holy water on Linda Blair. Shrieking heads haven’t stopped spinning since.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4 ... e-knows-it


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07 May 2019, 2:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Yet, there is still zero evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, or that Russian meddling had any real impact on our election. It's been nothing more than a smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real discussion that needs to take place.


I don't really disagree with the later, I don't believe Russian involvement was a decisive factor even if it was undeniably a factor.

The former seems untrue, but perhaps you've read the entire Mueller report and reached that conclusion instead of just repeating it because you like how it sounds. Whether or not their cooperation reached to the extent of criminality, to insist that no collusion whatsoever occurred seems to be a stretch.


There's zero evidence for collusion and zero evidence for 'meddling'. All been debunked by Bill Binney and Ray McGovern anyway.

Some phoney Alex Jones tales have nothing to do with the DNC and FBI colluding to try and stop Trump from reaching office.


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07 May 2019, 3:24 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Yet, there is still zero evidence that Trump colluded with Russia, or that Russian meddling had any real impact on our election.

I refer you to https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf.
Mueller wrote:
In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted
a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion." In so doing,
the Office recognized that the word "collud[ e ]" was used in communications with the Acting
Attorney General confirming certain aspects of the investigation's scope and that the term has
frequently been invoked in public reporting about the investigation. But collusion is not a specific
offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal
criminal law. For those reasons, the Office's focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability
was on conspiracy as defined in federal law. In connection with that analysis, we addressed the
factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign "coordinat[ ed]"-a term that appears
in the appointment order-with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion,
"coordination" does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood
coordination to require an agreement-tacit or express- between the Trump Campaign and the
Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking
actions that were informed by or responsive to the other's actions or interests. We applied the term
coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the
Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

I added the italics.
1: Mueller did not even look at collusion, but at conspiracy, which is a higher bar.
2: Mueller ignored any collaboration that is not directly with the Russian government. That seems to be why he doesn't count Manafort handing sensitive polling data to Kilimnik, the kind of data that allows precisely targeted campaigning to either frame issues in ways known to appeal to the targeted individuals, or to suppress the vote of Trump opponents. Kilimnik is not an appointed official of the Russian government. His known links are informal.
3: The proof for collusion is Manafort handing over those polling data.

VegetableMan wrote:
If the Mueller report eventually is released,

Follow the link above. Or do you mean completely unredacted? That is a convenient thing to demand if you don't want to deal with the report, because it's unlikely to happen.

VegetableMan wrote:
and it provides the evidence that collusion or meddling in U.S. election took place,

Mueller wrote:
The Internet Research Agency (IRA) carried out the earliest Russian interference
operations identified by the investigation- a social media campaign designed to provoke and
amplify political and social discord in the United States.

At the same time that the IRA operation began to focus ·on supporting candidate Trump in
early 2016, the Russian government employed a second form of interference: cyber intrusions
(hacking) and releases of hacked materials damaging to the Clinton Campaign. The Russian
intelligence service known as the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian
Army (GRU) carried out these operations.

Although the investigation
established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and
worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from
information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that
members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its
election interference activities.

Remember that Mueller required conspiracy or coordination directly with the government, and the known coordination was not directly with the government. But the meddling, Mueller says, is established fact. If you want to show otherwise, do tell what is wrng with the conclusions.

VegetableMan wrote:
then I'll be happy to acknowledge it.

Please do.

VegetableMan wrote:
Until then, it will continue to a huge distraction from our real problems -- like Trump himself.

How do you propose to solve that problem?



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07 May 2019, 3:27 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I think you're asking the wrong person that question :roll:

I asked "anyone here". You can't think of any occasion yourself?