The "Black Hole" of woke....
28 Aug 2022, 10:23 am
Transgender Folks Are Among the Most Marginalized of Minorities
in the United States As Their Numbers Are Among the Smallest at
Well Under One Percent of the General Population.
So In Other Words, It's Much Easier for Folks to Pretend
They Do Not Exist at All, Versus Other Minorities Pertaining
to Ethnic Minorities Like African Americans And Hispanics; Yes,
This Makes it More of a Necessity For Folks to Learn That Science
Shows Transgender Folks Are A Natural And Real Part of Humanity,
As Well as Other Folks With Different Sexual Orientations As Well;
Just Like Folks Who Have Different Levels of Melanin in their Skin and
Just Like Folks Who Have Functional Disabilities Like Autism As Well.
Some Folks Who Are Diagnosed With A Condition of Autism Like to Be Referred
to As A Person Diagnosed With Autism; Others Feel Like it is Part of Who They Are And
Desire to Be Called Autistic.
In my Case, Unless i Point out the Fact
i Have Been Diagnosed With Asperger's Syndrome
By Four Professionals, There is Literally No One i Meet
New Who Would Ever Guess i Have This Diagnosis; As
Typically in Terms of Ability to Adjust to Almost Any Social
Group Or Individual of Difference i'm Able to Blend in Better Now Than
Most Non-Autistic Folks in Terms of Reciprocal Social Communication.
i've Adapted
Seamlessly Now,
to the Point Where
i Would Be A Last Person
Someone Might Guess who is
Diagnosed With Autism; However the
Stereotype is With Reciprocal Social Communication Difficulties;
Ahem, Writing A Longest EPiC Long Form Poem at 10.8 MiLLioN
Words; And The Frequency And Duration of Dance Also Now in
17,101 Miles in Public in 9 Years is Surely Recognizable By Professionals
As still Someone Who Has Restricted Special Interests That Ordinarily Would
Interfere With Social Functioning in the Working World Yet i Don't Have to Do That
And my Wife Deals with it Okay; So Technically Now, for me outside of Having to Work for Pay
It is No Functional Disability for me and A Wonderful Gift to Focus The Way i Am able to Focus on A Special
Interest that Indeed Gains Me Access to Super Kind, Empathic, Intelligent, Creative Folks All Around the Globe
Who Judge me On the
Merits of my Creativity,
Intelligence, And Kindness;
Indeed, A Trifecta For Success
in Being Human In Life; Much More
Human that When i Restricted my Special
Interests to Information Technology; Financial
Management; And Basically Solving Problems Like
A Machine Noted as A Valuable Commodity At Work
Yet surely
Not the Literal
And Metaphorical
'Life of the Party' Everywhere
i Dance in 'REAL Life' Where Folks
Do A Zombie Shuffle Walk of Life.
It's true, Before, i Didn't Expect Folks to Suggest
i Would be the one to Win the Metro Area Dance
Contest Annually and For the Bouncers to Say the Party Doesn't
Start Until i Arrive for A Biggest Dance Hall Bar Available in A Metro Area of Half-A-Million
Yet it Happened, And There is Enough Empirical Evidence i Provide to Prove it Happened too (CHANGE HAPPENS);
GOD YES, We and Culture And Language Evolves Or We Would Still Be Communicating By Pictographs And Hand
Prints on Cave Walls as the Pinnacle of Human Potentials; True, We Would Still Be in "Plato's Cave," "Narrow-Asleep."
So Yes Again, Let's Get Woke!
If Anyone Here Prefers to
Be Called Person with Autism
Or Autistic Person i Will Easily Comply
With that Out of Humanity and Kindness
And Cognitive Empathy With Compassion.
Yawn, i Don't Meet too Many Folks Identifying as
'Autistic' Out in 'the Wild'; However, Lots of Folks Have
Someone in Their Family; Particularly, Children of course.
Yawn, i Meet even Less Transgender Folks And i Will Admit
i've Never Had A Close Enough Friendship Where Pronouns Have
Even Come Up in Conversation. Yet in the Rare Instance Someone
Might Ask For A Special Pronoun i Have A Good Enough Memory to remember
it, No Different than if they tell me Their Name and i See Them Again. Typically,
i Am Still Not one to Keep A Contact List as i Still Remember Phone Numbers of Friends From School
Some Plus 40 Years Ago too; So True, This is Easy for me. Perhaps it is too Hard for Other Folks Still to
Remember Someone's Name or Special Pronoun And in that Case We have Smart Phones to take Notes With too.
It's Not Gonna Hurt for Us to Become More Familiar With the Cultural And Other Differences
of Folks Around Us, if We Are Open Minded Enough to Do it with the Intellectual and Social
Capacity to Do it;
Not Everyone Has
These Functional Capabilities/
Capacities Or Even A Will To Do It; Typically
The More Humans Are Able to Cooperate Now
With others the Greater Places They Go in Life.
Our Limits are our Limits; Our Will To Excellence is the Door to Greater Potentials Realized.
It's Like me, i Understand my Autism to Be A REAL SUPERPOWER Now i CAN AND WILL EMPIRICALLY MEASURE
IN TERMS OF CREATIVITY AND PRODUCTIVITY; JUST LIKE THE GIFTS THAT BI-POLAR, NON SPECIFIED, BRINGS ME TOO...
Yet again,
i Don't Have
to Be A Slave to
Anyone Else's Direction
For Pay; So that Sets me free
To Exercise the Gifts And Throw Away the Curses
that for me at Least, Were Truly THE INSANITY of
A Literal Machine of Culture Where i Became
More The Tool that i Used to Make a
Living in Special Interest Ways per
Information Technology and
Financial Management Then
Than What i Understand
Now For What it means to
Be A Fully Empathic and Kind Human Being....
Including the Flame Within That Makes my Life Bless and Bliss Naked, Enough, Whole, Complete...
Mileage Varies Depending on Make, Model, Vehicle, Vessel of Being Human; Yes, Nature and Nurture Per Each
Unique Human Being;
Folks Who Are Open
Minded Will be Naturally
More Open to the Differences
of Other Human Beings; Others
Will Still Likely See Disgust at a Statue (Focusing on a very small part)
of David Sculpted By Another Neuro-Diverse Human Being, Michelangelo....
i Take this into Account as Part of Nature too; What We Basically See Are
Open Minded Folks And Less Open Minded Folks And What They Are Open to Tolerate, Accept, And Do
To Sit in the Back of the Room And Let those Who are Marginalized Have a Front of the Class View and Do;
Not Everyone is Cut-Out
to Do this and That Okay too.
It's Nature; There are Many
Functional Disabilities
In life that
Have no
DSM5 Label at all.
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
28 Aug 2022, 11:16 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
Yes you can. Refusing to use a go by pronoun for somone is considered misgendering.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
28 Aug 2022, 5:04 pm
babybird wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I think ... when advancing necessary change, there are always people who take it too far, or use and and abuse whatever the concept of the day is for their own purposes. But instead of focusing on the fanatics that push past the edge, I find it important to understand what it is that actually should get changed.
So, as LeagueGirl pointed out, one thing that had to change 100 years ago was the limited roles society assigned to women. Limiting the roles of women was not only overly constricting for women, and made it easier for women to be abused, but it also meant there was a lot of wasted and under-utilized talent that might have otherwise more readily been applied to the benefit of society.
Today, I do believe it is important for people to recognize how history forms the present, and some injustices continue past the removal of the obvious. I also believe it is important for people to recognize that people should be allowed to be who they are, instead of hiding their reality because society has too limited a norm. But what this all means to how we act and talk on a day to day basis is still evolving and getting figured out. And, at times, that process is going to go a little far and be a little too bizarre. The problem is, attacking the silliness is, too often, a cover for and a method of preventing the necessary change.
So, as LeagueGirl pointed out, one thing that had to change 100 years ago was the limited roles society assigned to women. Limiting the roles of women was not only overly constricting for women, and made it easier for women to be abused, but it also meant there was a lot of wasted and under-utilized talent that might have otherwise more readily been applied to the benefit of society.
Today, I do believe it is important for people to recognize how history forms the present, and some injustices continue past the removal of the obvious. I also believe it is important for people to recognize that people should be allowed to be who they are, instead of hiding their reality because society has too limited a norm. But what this all means to how we act and talk on a day to day basis is still evolving and getting figured out. And, at times, that process is going to go a little far and be a little too bizarre. The problem is, attacking the silliness is, too often, a cover for and a method of preventing the necessary change.
What gets me is that during WW2 in the UK women were called to do all the jobs the men who went to war couldn't do. Most of this would have been manual work. I had a great aunt who was a crane operator during that time.
After the war the same women were expected to go back to their roles as housewives etc and more or less laughed at if they wanted to do those other roles again
In 1990 I had to jump through hoops to train to be a builder because I am a woman. I was about 16 at the time. I can also remember when I was in school and the careers officer told me that I wouldn't be able to do these kinds of jobs because I'm female.
It just looks like if it suits the government then it's ok for women to fill these roles but otherwise you have to fight harder to do them if it's upto personal choice.
There is still work to do on women's rights, isn't there?
I believe that defining roles based on outside characteristics of any sort is unnecessary and counterproductive for society. Let people find what works for them, and then accept them where they are coming from. We make it hard for no good reason beyond the fact human beings are tribal by nature. A trait once necessary for survival of the species, perhaps, but I think we can do better today.
As I posted earlier and as you posted earlier on this page, sometimes attaching terms to concepts is counterproductive. "Woke" as a word is in that place, IMHO. Meaning can vary a lot by the mind of the user. Instead of having an emotional reaction to someone's use of a term, ask them what they, uniquely in their own mind, actually mean. People aren't always as far apart in their goals as their use of language might make it seem. My MAGA anti-woke friend recently wrote what I saw as a very pro-LGBTQ post that was really supportive and insightful. People are complex and language isn't fixed and certain.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
Last edited by DW_a_mom on 28 Aug 2022, 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
28 Aug 2022, 5:12 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
Non-Binary is a start
28 Aug 2022, 5:13 pm
League_Girl wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
Yes you can. Refusing to use a go by pronoun for somone is considered misgendering.
I've gotten in trouble with indigenous and LGBTQI students I've tutored
28 Aug 2022, 5:16 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
If you can learn someone's name, you can learn their pronoun at the same time, assuming they aren't making it unusually difficult for you (she, him, their would be unfairly complicated to expect from others, IMHO). Same as when you forget a name, you can awkwardly admit you've forgotten their pronoun, and they will repeat it as often as needed.
Quote:
The implication is that the evolving process is natural
That things evolve is natural. The steps in the process and the path taken is not. But, yeah, we have to let people get there in their own way and in their own time, which is something a lot of people on the far left do need to learn.I may be an "OK, boomer," at times (how could I not be at my age?), but my daughter tells me I have influenced her on quite a few things, and she is actively passing those on to her friends. We had some really great conversations locked down together; I am so grateful for that time. The concept of meeting people at their natural starting place and allowing them to evolve in their own way is something she gets quite well and agrees her cohorts haven't been very good at.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
29 Aug 2022, 4:24 am
League_Girl wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
Yes you can. Refusing to use a go by pronoun for somone is considered misgendering.
Did they expand the definition of misgendering overnight? Every definition I have read says misgendering is using a different gender pronoun than the person prefers. It says nothing about saying f**k it I am not going to use any gender pronouns and just call people by their names.
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
29 Aug 2022, 4:53 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Wokes will argue language evolves, get on board, or get canceled. The implication is that the evolving process is natural. It is not. Having made such a big deal out of trigger words it strains credulity the wokes do not understand how much the words "racist" and "racism" are triggering..
Language has evolved in the past, it's currently evolving and will continue to evolve in the future. People have opportunity to learn to be inclusive. I need to enrol myself for LGBTQI training as I admit I don't have a good grasp of correct language use when it comes to pronouns/nouns for groups like trans.
People have busy lives, it is unreasonable to expect people to know dozens of pronouns and to fit the people with their preferred pronouns. I could be wrong but “non-binary” should cover it. You can not go wrong by using the person’s name.
Yes you can. Refusing to use a go by pronoun for somone is considered misgendering.
Did they expand the definition of misgendering overnight? Every definition I have read says misgendering is using a different gender pronoun than the person prefers. It says nothing about saying f**k it I am not going to use any gender pronouns and just call people by their names.
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an a**hole. Everyone said yes.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York
29 Aug 2022, 5:55 am
You can not go wrong by using the person’s name
League_Girl wrote:
Yes you can
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
So I guess even I underestimated the length the wokes will go to expand definitions in order to entrap people for cancelation purposes. We keep on being told the expanded definitions are descriptive and not meant to necessarily judge the offender as a bad person. And yet this person apparently got in trouble at work for it.
A lot of caveats since obviously, we have very limited information. Did the person in question job specifically say they refused to use pronouns at their job because they were uncomfortable? Is it a job that requires formal business language such as Mr. Mrs, or Mx.? What type of Reddit thread was it?
_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.
29 Aug 2022, 8:46 am
babybird wrote:
I didn't even know what the word "pronoun" meant until about 3 months ago.
I'm still not too certain now.
I'm still not too certain now.
A "pronoun" is a word that is used as a substitute for a 'noun'. A noun is word for a thing (or person or animal).
"Joe Biden" is a proper noun. The name of a certain person. If you talk about Joe Biden, and dont want to recite his whole name you refer to him as "him", and use "he" and "his", and so forth.
You refer to your car as "it".
And to yourself as 'me', and others refer to you as 'she'.
The problem with pronouns is transgender folks. A person born male, and wants to ID as female will often want to be referred to as 'she'.
CockneyRebel, here on this site, is a biological female, but prefers to be called "he" and "him", etc.
29 Aug 2022, 10:59 am
ASPartOfMe wrote:
You can not go wrong by using the person’s name
So I guess even I underestimated the length the wokes will go to expand definitions in order to entrap people for cancelation purposes. We keep on being told the expanded definitions are descriptive and not meant to necessarily judge the offender as a bad person. And yet this person apparently got in trouble at work for it.
A lot of caveats since obviously, we have very limited information. Did the person in question job specifically say they refused to use pronouns at their job because they were uncomfortable? Is it a job that requires formal business language such as Mr. Mrs, or Mx.? What type of Reddit thread was it?
League_Girl wrote:
Yes you can
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
So I guess even I underestimated the length the wokes will go to expand definitions in order to entrap people for cancelation purposes. We keep on being told the expanded definitions are descriptive and not meant to necessarily judge the offender as a bad person. And yet this person apparently got in trouble at work for it.
A lot of caveats since obviously, we have very limited information. Did the person in question job specifically say they refused to use pronouns at their job because they were uncomfortable? Is it a job that requires formal business language such as Mr. Mrs, or Mx.? What type of Reddit thread was it?
Just use their preferred pronouns. It takes zero efforts and imagine if somone refused to refer you as he and kept calling you "that person" or your name only but never used pronouns for you. It's dehumanizing. It's different if you don't know their pronouns so you are avoiding misgendering but once they tell you, use them.
It was the AITA sub and most of the time people want validation or make up a fake story and it's "trans people bad" post or "disabled people bad" or "LGBT bad" and "fat people bad" or just someone being an obvious ass but I do not believe the real them would go on there and ask if they are an a**hole. There are rage bait stories as well. It's always entertaining to read.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
29 Aug 2022, 4:28 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
You can not go wrong by using the person’s name
So I guess even I underestimated the length the wokes will go to expand definitions in order to entrap people for cancelation purposes. We keep on being told the expanded definitions are descriptive and not meant to necessarily judge the offender as a bad person. And yet this person apparently got in trouble at work for it.
A lot of caveats since obviously, we have very limited information. Did the person in question job specifically say they refused to use pronouns at their job because they were uncomfortable? Is it a job that requires formal business language such as Mr. Mrs, or Mx.? What type of Reddit thread was it?
League_Girl wrote:
Yes you can
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
Let's say someone goes by "they" but you are not comfortable with it so you avoid using any pronouns for them and only use their name they go by. This is still misgendering. Someone actually got in trouble for this at their job so they went on Reddit and wanted to know if they were an as*hole. Everyone said yes.
So I guess even I underestimated the length the wokes will go to expand definitions in order to entrap people for cancelation purposes. We keep on being told the expanded definitions are descriptive and not meant to necessarily judge the offender as a bad person. And yet this person apparently got in trouble at work for it.
A lot of caveats since obviously, we have very limited information. Did the person in question job specifically say they refused to use pronouns at their job because they were uncomfortable? Is it a job that requires formal business language such as Mr. Mrs, or Mx.? What type of Reddit thread was it?
Nobody said anyone was cancelled, and I suspect there was more to that story. In my experience most people are quite patient as long as someone is making some effort. It’s outright refusal to even try to refer to someone as they requested that is an issue. Like someone who will call you by a generic slang term for months on end when you’ve asked to be called by your name and have your name right on your name tag. It’s insisting you have more right to someone’s identity in your presence than they do, which is dismissive and infantilizing to another person. Have you ever been around someone like that? They are being a**holes.
I still remember how upset I felt by a teacher who chose what to call me when there were too many kids with the same name in the class. Instead of asking me, she simply insisted, and I remember I just kept repeating it wasn’t my name. Obviously we’re talking adults who can speak for themselves and not children, but I remember that sense of my identity being grabbed away from me, and how much it hurt. All she had to do was ask me if there was a variation I’d be happy with, but she didn’t.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
itscomplicated
Blue Jay
Joined: 29 Aug 2022
Age: 1941
Gender: Female
Posts: 83
Location: middle of nowhere
