why do people bash islam but love christianity??

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There exist passages in the Bible with some eerily similar commandments, that doesn't mean everyone is required to follow them literally by law. There are plenty of laws still on the books based on Christian scripture. Heck, DOMA only just now went away.



The specific commandments have been pulled out by bigots and fear-mongers, and then fed to people who took them as truth. They are isolated passages that are not law anywhere and to try to use them as some kind of proof of anything more than something written in the 600s is fallacy.



And more ad hominem.



Q'uran and Hadith. Focus. Don't jump to another thing.

I repete: why they're not valid as a source of islamic precepts?[/quote]

They are only as valid as the commandments in your family Bible.

I already answered to that.

So I copy paste myself, again.



And I add the previous ones again, since probably it already went out of your mind.





I don't care if they're isolated. The question is if they're are or they're not valid as islamic commandments. I repete: if they're not valid as islamic precepts, why is that? Why they're not valid?

Jesus' message was one of tolerance, acceptance, and helping those less fortunate than you (not let's judge a huge segment of the population based on propaganda that non-Muslims have fed to him).
The core of Islam is meditation, prayer, and giving alms (not murder all infidels). Jesus is still a prophet in their faith. His basic message was essentially the same in both texts.
Both have a positive central focus, and both have some bits in their collected scriptures that are pretty messed up (and that most followers would prefer weren't there or don't apply). Both have their humanitarians and their monstrosities. The only real differences are the ones in your head where you have to label everything as "us vs them." (or as some would put it, "US vs Them)."



They are only as valid as the verses in your Bible that you don't think count for being in the Old Testament. The thing is, a lot of Christians would not agree with you. A lot of Christians would like to interpret their Old Testament into modern day Christian life. Every small pocket of people just picks out the bits that they like and ignore the rest.
This is something that happens with every religion. It transcends religion altogether. There have been plenty of modern day terrorists belonging to every faith; Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Sikh, Jainism, Taoism, Shinto, Zoroastrian, Bahai, and even Buddhism.
It might be this unnoticed collective egotism we humans seem to have, making every grouping of people think that they are better than everyone else just because it is the group they belong to.

Please do me one favor. Find a Muslim that lives near you and just sit down with him/her, and have an open and honest conversation about the nature of his/her personal beliefs and share some things about your own personal beliefs. Don't argue, don't let yourself get angry; no judgments, just discuss.

Seriously? Same message? I think we have a different concept about what 'same' means. Becuase I don't see how a guy who says

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

is telling the same messasge that other one who says

"Kill any Jew who falls under your power. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Or comparing

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

with

"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers"

Same message? Are you f*****g kidding?



I don't care how the interpret. I they follow the Old Testament, but they're against what Jesus said, they're not christians. Period. A person can't be christian doing the opposite of what Jesus said, not matter this is written in some part of the Old Testament or elsewhere.

Are you making the Gnostic argument that different Gods wrote the Old and New Testaments? If the same God inspired both compilations, then I don't see why it matters.

Baháʾí terrorists? Not that I know of. However, I agree with your basic point.

Once again,there are plenty who pray to Jesus and still follow portions of the Old Testament. I was providing the other side of the Christian holy books. There are parts of it that you don't live by, why is it so hard for you to imagine that others may be the same way with with a different set of scriptures. Please talk to some actual Muslims before you go any further with your bigotry.

Now here is the opposite side of your narrow sighted picture of the Qur'an:
"Truly those who believe, and the Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and performs virtuous deeds - surely their reward is with their Sustainer, and no fear shall come upon them, neither shall they grieve. " (Quran 2:62)

"O mankind, truly We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Truly the most noble of you, in the sight of God, is the most God-conscious. (49: 13)

For every community (of faith) We have appointed ways of worship, which they ought to observe. Hence, do not let those (who follow other ways) draw you into dispute on this score, but summon them to their Sustainer: for you are on the right way. And if they argue with you, say: God knows best what you are doing." (Quran 22:67)

"Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men - for Allah loves those who do good" (Quran 3:134)

“… let them forgive and overlook, do you not wish that Allah should forgive you? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 24:22)

"But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs. " (Quran 42:43)

"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant. " (Quran 7:199)

"It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. " (Quran 60:7)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clearly from error; whoever rejects evil and has faith in God has grasped the most trustworthy, unfailing handhold. And God hears and knows all things. God is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light." (Quran 2:256-257)

"To God belongs the East and the West,
Wheresoever you look is the face of God." (Quran 2:115)

And some quotes from Muhammad himself:
"Forgive him who wrongs you; join him who cuts you off; do good to him who does evil to you, and speak the truth although it be against yourself."

"All God's creatures are His family; and he or she is the most beloved of God who tries to do most good to God's creatures."

"The best of God’s servants are those who, when seen, remind one of God; and the worst of God’s servants are those who carry tales about to do mischief and separate friends, and seek for the defects of the good."

"The three best things: to be humble amidst the vicissitudes of fortune; to pardon when powerful; and to be generous with no strings attached."

There have been a few. You don't get that kind of religious persecution without generating a few angry pissed of young men looking for vengeance.

Honestly, from my point of view it's the opposite. I'm surrounded by people who have a huge bias against Christianity mostly based on misconceptions. I do not want to debate or argue but I will say that the majority of people I know who do not like Christianity hate the religion due to those who rule it, those who dictate it. The Bible has been edited, rewritten so many times it has become a misunderstood book. The biggest gripe I hear is that Christians don't let people live their own lives the way they want to. It's weird that they would say that yet are so vehemently opposed to it that they literally wish people should not be allowed to believe. Which is what they believe the Christians do. Again, not wanting to argue but I have heard less hatred directed at Islam, most likely due to environment, region, etc.

I have never heard of it. Do you know who they are?

People can interpret what they want. I don't care. I'm talking about the basis of both religions. Jesus said 'Love your enemies'. Muhammad said 'Kill the unbelievers'. Now you interpret and you do whatever you like. But the message in both religions is quite clear. And quite different.



Well, some posts before, I quoted you some fragments and asked: are they or aren't they valid ones as commandments? Because this is what matters. You still didn't answer.

So, with regard with those quotes, I'm not gonna avoid the question or gonna beat around the bush. I'm straightforward: thos quotes of the Q'uran are not valid.

It has a lot to do with personal bias. A lot of Christians don't see the problems present in their own religion and they also make up a fair majority of the West's population. Religion is a lot like farts. To you, yours probably don't smell so bad, but everyone else's is some stankass s**t. Likewise with religion.

The IRA is a Marxist organization. Unless you are talking about Loyalist activity. But considering that separatist (who in most cases are far left themselves) and leftist terrorism make up the vast majority of terrorist acts carried out in the EU (82+% in 2010 according to Europol(1)) it makes me wonder why you bring this up. Since the perpetrators where not motived by Christian motives.



You found your own error later. But the goal is that those who do not belong to the so called people of the book should be killed, if they reject the call to Islam. Others may pay protecting money.



First of all Christians do not consider Jesus a prophet but the Son of God.

And I think that most Christians would state that Jesus died for their sins. But according to the Quran someone else was made to look like Jesus and that person was then crucified. (Quran 4:157).

(1)https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/te-sat2011_0.pdf

Last edited by Sigbold on 09 Aug 2013, 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, none of them are actually modern day, so perhaps the Baha'i were not a good choice to include. The most violent occurred when Baha'u'llah was trying to force Subh-i-Azal to recognize him by withholding his share of the allowance being provided by the Turkish government. As a result, Subh-i-Azal's children became malnourished. This was seen as a betrayal and angered Baha'u'llah. The Baha'is responded to the Babis resistance by rewriting many Babi writings, downgrading the Bab to a forerunner of Baha'u'llah, the real prophet, and attacking and killing about twenty Babis in Bagdad, Adrianople, and Akka. Two of these Babis were brothers of Fatima, widow of the Bab, and one was her husband at the time. The killers were never punished and never disowned by Baha'u'llah even then. After this, the Turkish government separated the two groups, which let both sides cool off enough to allow the movement to become the peaceful and tolerant religion it has become today even with a myriad of different sects.

Sorry if I spelled any of the names wrong.

I am not arguing this at all. I am merely stating that Jesus' teachings are part of the Muslim faith as well as the Christian one.
Even Muhammad himself compared his writings to those of the Christian faith on more than one occasion.

Last edited by sonofghandi on 09 Aug 2013, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Are the reasons why Americans bash Islam different from the reasons why the British bash Islam? There is a common factor that Islam is an alien religion that also impacts on the otherwise secular sphere - such as economic policy, Sharia law, liberties etc. - but are there enough differences between the UK and the US to hate Islam for different reasons. The UK does not have a constitution like the US and Christianity is no longer a significant influential social force as it has declined to a minority hobby status. This means that much of the dislike and distrust of Islam (apart from the terrorism aspect) falls down to incompatibilities between it and the everyday British popular culture and lifestyle.

There is a body of opinion that other religious and ethnic groups have successfully integrated and assimilated in Britain although in reality they all have their own peculiarities and regions of conflict, but the media tends to ignore them. For example, black Jamaicans commit a disproportionate amount of street crime. Nigerians are behind many scams. Hindu Indians regularly commit white collar crimes and engage in corrupt business practises.