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Jacoby
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27 Jan 2017, 3:19 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The farmers aren't dirt farmers on their family plot, I think most agriculture in this country is own by large corporations or concentrated in the hands of a few which makes these exploitative practices all the more worse. People say go after the employers and they should but the only way to make a dent in the practice is to turn off the spigot of unlimited illegal immigrant labor because then it's just a game of who gets caught. When they say like 40% of agriculture is support by illegal labor it's absolute joke, we are supposed to feel dependent on criminals? It's never going to get fixed on its own, it is essentially the same argument used for the continuation of slavery. I believe some rich people who have built their empire on exploitation deserve to be ruined and I don't fear it because I believe that creates opportunity for others who do follow the rules to pick up slack, that would be economic fairness to me.

I think sometimes the answers to things can be very simple yet be emotionally upsetting to some, emotional arguments can be genuine in how they feel to the individual but they are not always correct and genuine emotional arguments can be made on both sides on many issues.

I sort of agree.

Also, forced relocation would end in gunfire, both leaving and arriving.

What the hell do we do? The people who do accept the farm jobs can live in the shacks? Do we spend public money to rebuild the shacks, at least, if we are going to eliminate the minimum wage?

Edit: Okay, so the small farmers have sold to the big corporations. Who do they hire as managers? Mostly the former farmers or their children, the people who know and care about farming. What you say is true, but it may not make as big a difference on the ground as you assume.


It may be simple yet unsettling for some but controlling our border and the deportation & repatriation of illegal immigrants back to their home countries is not undoable nor do I think it needs to be done in a cruel or inhumane way. This has been done before in the US under President Dwight Eisenhower with very limited means actually over the course of a few year to huge success. Now I think there a lot of creative solutions to be had in terms of this problem and I wish I had the power to make the decision. I think there could be a cash amount offered with a one way ticket back to voluntarily return their country and I think you'd be surprised at the amount that would jump at the opportunity. Simply enforcing the laws on the books would make a lot of progress. Look up how Mexico treats people that illegally

FWIW those managers are usually the ones who hire the illegals, that is how the scheme often works since the owner can just say he(or she!) contracted out the management who in turn hired its own crew thus skirt responsibility. If they are dependent on illegal labor then market forces would put these farms out of business, personally I would break up the big agricultural corporations which control our food supply and believe trust-busting may be necessary in breaking up these unnatural monopolies which have concentrated the wealth in the hands of so few but maybe I should stop on that line of thinking before people think I'm some sort of anti-capitalist.

Arizona would be among the most effected I think but I welcome the change of the status quo even if it upsets the body politic in the short term.



jrjones9933
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27 Jan 2017, 3:34 pm

You have definitely caught my interest with Trust Busting. Let's Bust!

Otherwise, thank you for the details. That was a nice exchange, for me.


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jrjones9933
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27 Jan 2017, 3:36 pm

I have another question which bothers me. Trump has gone back and forth on house to house raids. Where will he draw the line in the end?


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Jacoby
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27 Jan 2017, 4:07 pm

http://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/1/27/ ... rustbuster

actually an article written on today on Vox of all places

I see no need for house to house paramilitary raids, maybe a targeted raid on suspect gang or cartel members that are known to be illegal but I think that is already justified or should be. Sanctuary cities project criminals like this too. I think people really underestimate how much just securing our border will go in solving the problem since it's not like this country doesn't deport anyone but we have such a porous southern border, I believe Obama has deported over 2 million in his second term so I think the feasibility of making progress isn't that unrealistic. Now the number of illegal immigrants in this country is not something that is actually known, the low end is 11 million but the high end is north of 30 million which has been quoted from multiple sources including a Mexican officials. We need to make there be real consequences to illegally entering this country a 2nd time I think, a penalty that would carry prison time. Mexico is no more tolerant of those that illegally enter their country, I believe it comes with a multiyear prison sentence and how humane do you think those prisons are?

edit: getting some weird Access Denied 403 not found errors trying to post this, I removed the link and it went thru. Odd.



cathylynn
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28 Jan 2017, 3:17 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Mexico just mentioned that they might stop importing Midwest corn.If they decide they don't want anymore US rice that will severely harm the agri business in my state.We export around a billion dollars worth of rice a year,much going to Mexico.Take that away and there will be lots of broke farmers here.


Our ability to hurt Mexico far exceeds their ability to hurt us, Mexico should accept responsibility for millions of its citizens that have illegally crossed our border. If millions of Americans were allowed to illegally cross the border with Canada it would not exist as an independent country very long, so if Canada has a right to stand up for its sovereign interests then why can't the US? We're not the only relevant party to these issues and people forget that, why are all other countries abdicated of any responsibility when it comes to issues with the US?


net immigration is ZERO. mexico's economy is doing well. people are staying there and returning there. central american refugees are coming, but they have a right to enter as assylum-seekers.



jrjones9933
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28 Jan 2017, 6:54 pm

Another nice graphic from Japan

Image


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cathylynn
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23 Feb 2017, 4:39 pm

cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.



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23 Feb 2017, 4:42 pm

cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:


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cathylynn
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23 Feb 2017, 4:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:

neither side is without miscreants.



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23 Feb 2017, 9:16 pm

A writer in the New Yorker says:

"The gaudy gold drapery of the East Room contributed to the impression that at any moment Trump might declare himself President for Life, and a flunky would appear from behind the curtain to pin the Medal of National Greatness on his suit jacket, while, backstage, officials and generals discussed his overthrow."

Law blogger Althouse replies: "So let me get this straight — who's crazy?"

:D :lol: :mrgreen:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/02/th ... eorge.html

(Just one more lefty New York writer with a terminal case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.)


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EzraS
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23 Feb 2017, 11:08 pm

cathylynn wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:

neither side is without miscreants.


I think the thing is that the liberals were going on about how the conservatives were going to be the miscreants if they lost the election, whilst they would take the high road if they lost.



Chronos
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24 Feb 2017, 1:42 am

Darmok wrote:
Trump Derangement Syndrome in one image:

Image


It's my understanding that he isn't actually a republican. He just ran with the republican party because it's impossible for a 3rd party candidate to win a presidential election at the moment.



Kiprobalhato
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24 Feb 2017, 2:03 am

Raptor wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:


the local tire salespeople probably appreciated it. as did the towing company perhaps.

liberal (heh) use of political bumper stickers isn't very bright, anyway. you risk making yourself a target, and nobody will buy your car should you want to sell it.

whoever designed the glue on those things intended for it to last until the end of time.


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EzraS
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24 Feb 2017, 3:01 am

Darmok wrote:
Trump Derangement Syndrome in one image:

Image


Image



cathylynn
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24 Feb 2017, 2:39 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:


the local tire salespeople probably appreciated it. as did the towing company perhaps.

liberal (heh) use of political bumper stickers isn't very bright, anyway. you risk making yourself a target, and nobody will buy your car should you want to sell it.

whoever designed the glue on those things intended for it to last until the end of time.

the tire people are fixing or replacing the tires at cost and holding a fundraiser for the remainder.
i appreciate the "target" comment. a car here was torched for having an Obama sticker. still, people of every persuasion should be able to express themselves without worrying about being battered or vandalized.



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24 Feb 2017, 3:07 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
cars with liberal bumper stickers had their tires slashed outside a townhall with a conservative representative in mariposa, california. my friend was there.

So?

:shrug:


the local tire salespeople probably appreciated it. as did the towing company perhaps.

liberal (heh) use of political bumper stickers isn't very bright, anyway. you risk making yourself a target, and nobody will buy your car should you want to sell it.

whoever designed the glue on those things intended for it to last until the end of time.

You can remove them with a hair dryer.Once the glue is hot it will peel right off.You can use a razor or solvent for any left over glue.There are some vehicles here plastered with stickers,so far there has never been any trouble that I know of.


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