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greenblue
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08 Aug 2007, 4:58 pm

This thread is quite entertaining 8)


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Ragtime
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08 Aug 2007, 5:00 pm

Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.


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greenblue
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08 Aug 2007, 5:01 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
calandale wrote:
greenblue wrote:
As you stated before, how do you know for a fact that women suck better than men? lol
Because being straight one can feel better when a woman does to you than a man, that's not a fact, it's a subjective view, because you are just seeing this in one single point of view, that of a straight man.


Indeed, I've rather heard the opposite.


take that seinfield show for example.... they stick with their team cause they have access to the equipment WAY more... so how can women compete in that arena :lol: :P


Because God made them to match with men, hello... It's obvious, if you just open your eyes.

The question is, who is the one that really needs to open his eyes.


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greenblue
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08 Aug 2007, 5:04 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

You say that christians are currently being persecuted now?
ok, let's just say that they really are, or at least that you are
Wouldn't that make you more sympathetic to gay people?


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 5:04 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
What you're all trying to do, with all these questions upon recalibrated questions upon still more recalibrated questions, is find out where I end and my religion begins.

The problem with the assumptions behind that approach is that any true Christian will be joined to his religion seemlessly. That's what's so frustrating for you all. I'm being as civil as I can be while refusing to change my religion. And it drives you bonkers.


nope just that you have thi facade of "logic" to support your beliefs

if you're frank about your beliefs in the verbatum translation and acknoewlde that you have no tru logic (deducible within our system)...

then there's nothing more to argue about...


but that you try to use logic to support your believes (and dont do so in a linear or coherent, even, fashion) shows your weakness and inconsistancy

and i poo poo on your attitutde also for openly admitting you ignore valid points ect cause "you're above them" and they're "trivial"

you can pick and choose logic any more than you can pick and choose bits of your faith


"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt 5:10-12).


i am not persecuting your righteousness.... just your logic

try using some and you could deduce that

ive heard these kinds of argments presented much more eloquently and with less sidestepping and backhanded insults

you dont come off very righteous.... just so you know

ive already acknowledged that you're gonna go to your heaven

what more do you want?

me nor anyone can take that from you...

you're just gonna be pretty lonley there (or not.... being an aspie :lol: )


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 5:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
how do you and all the other christians know your god is the one true god
what if the witches got it right after all


I'm sure.


again...

not any moreso than any other poius person of any other faith


Yet only one is true. Either Jesus is the only way, as He claimed He is, or He isn't. This is true despite how sure others are against it.


why cause JESUS says so?

you cannot say this in an objective manner.... you can know it for yourself... sure... but that's the extent cause you could be wrong... even though you know you arent...


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08 Aug 2007, 5:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

There.
After they choose.
I didn't choose to be gay. Neither did my friend who was bullied throughout school (even primary school) because of it and ended up depressed and suicidal.



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08 Aug 2007, 5:09 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.


Except that a Christian does become, immutably, a Christian after they choose to believe and repent. So that, then, IS what they are, so when they're persecuted, it is for being who they are. They're a "new creature", "transformed", "reborn" -- that's what all those terms mean -- they're not spiritually the same as they were when they were physically born.

About christians being persecuted, I just remember that Jehovah's Witnesses say they are persecuted, and that just because of the blood transfusion thing, which they think it's wrong. I've heard stories that there have been court orders when it comes to a minor to get blood transfusion in order to survive, yes, they are not happy about it.
Do you think they are really persecuted?


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Sedaka
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08 Aug 2007, 5:10 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
well what do you say
its wrong to be gay?
I wont get into heaven because of it
I have to fallow God to be saved?
what is it
:?


he's gonna say no... it's wrong for you to have sex with men... though it's still ~~ same



why deny who you are even if you "dont" sin?

cause god says so... it's an illogical impass...


Sin is not "who you are". Don't make sin sound like an identity, so that you can excuse it away; I know of that tactic. God deliberately made everyone different, so that "who you are" would be something unique and special. But sin is evil, and not part of that created uniqueness. It's nothing but baggage, or as John Bunyon wrote in his famous "Pilgrim's Progess", one of my most cherished books, sin is "this heavy burden". In his novel, sin was a literal giant sack this guy named "Christian" had to carry on his back through his entire life. England locked up John Bunyon simply for preaching -- just as the Apostle Paul was. The world has always tried to silence Christians, through as extreme means as were available to them at the time. Even the Catholic Church tried to silence them, through threats, torture, and painful executions.


you're missing the fine point that i dont consider homosexuality as a sin... but part of people's personality


By "missing", you must mean "directly addressing". (This is probably where we keep not communicating.)

I didn't miss your point; I responded that it is wrong, and I explained in detail why it is wrong.


no you didnt but thanks for addressing it now.......

i dont care who you say is wrong cause it's subjective. i think you're wrong

whoop di do...

i dont really care cause i hold myself to higher standards than you do


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greenblue
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08 Aug 2007, 5:16 pm

Ragtime wrote:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt 5:10-12).

Hmmmm
Gay people are or were also persecuted, so this also can apply to them, right?


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calandale
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08 Aug 2007, 5:16 pm

Sopho wrote:
No one is born a Christian or biologically a Christian. Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.



Calvin would disagree. Probably Raggles too.
Grace is granted by God, and one has no choice
in the matter. Those who are saved just are.

This is where he differs from the Catholic view that
works are necessary, in addition.



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08 Aug 2007, 5:17 pm

Ragtime wrote:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt 5:10-12).

Citing the Bible to people who believe it was written by men and not by any god, wouldn't do much help to your arguments.


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08 Aug 2007, 5:23 pm

calandale wrote:
Sopho wrote:
No one is born a Christian or biologically a Christian. Having your own parents not accept you for what you are is different to them not accepting your decisions or what you choose to believe.



Calvin would disagree. Probably Raggles too.
Grace is granted by God, and one has no choice
in the matter. Those who are saved just are.

This is where he differs from the Catholic view that
works are necessary, in addition.


but jesus aint the repo man..... you cant be saved unless you want it

what do you mean "works" ...necessary for what?


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08 Aug 2007, 5:37 pm

greenblue wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Were you bullied in school for being Christian? Did you lose 'friends' for being Christian? Did your family not accept you for being Christian?


Yes to all three, and I'll continue to lose people, opportunities, money, and possessions for living out my morality.

If that's true, it is not for being christian, it is for how YOU ARE as a person, in this regard, most people don't have problems with christian people as long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down other people's throats, because that is annoying actually.


Christians aren't being Christians if they don't tell people that Jesus is the only way to God. That is what they've been persecuted and killed for since Christ Himself was killed for saying it. That Jesus is the only way to Heaven is a VERY offensive message!! ! "Scandalon", in the Greek New Testament -- a "scandal", essentially.



Last edited by Ragtime on 08 Aug 2007, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

calandale
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08 Aug 2007, 5:45 pm

Sedaka wrote:

what do you mean "works" ...necessary for what?


Salvation. Catholics believe that your actions in the world
effect your status.



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08 Aug 2007, 5:46 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Christians are being Christians if they don't tell people that Jesus is the only way to God. .


Awesome. So go be a Christian.