The atheist crusades must stop!

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iamnotaparakeet
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26 Aug 2008, 3:57 pm

corroonb wrote:

Is anyone actually afraid of atheists?

I mean atheists don't blow themselves up or murder for their "god".

Who isn't afraid of religious fundamentalists whether they are Christians, Muslims, Jews or miscellaneous?

Yeah, atheists seem to be relegated to being internet trolls. It's not like they shoot up schools or burn down churches or anything violent....

corroonb
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26 Aug 2008, 4:00 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Yeah, atheists seem to be relegated to being internet trolls. It's not like they shoot up schools or burn down churches or anything violent....

I was just pointing out the wrongheadedness of this whole thread. The religious need to get their houses in order before they start throwing stones at atheists.

skafather84
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26 Aug 2008, 4:01 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Yeah, atheists seem to be relegated to being internet trolls. It's not like they shoot up schools or burn down churches or anything violent....

my question is this....which i'm sure there's probably numbers somewhere but i gotta be back to work in about 120 seconds...

is the instance of such violence higher or lower for one group vs another. like just from what i see, it seems that muslims have the highest instances, judaism next (though the majority of that is relegated to violence against muslims farmers in the west abnk), then christianity, then atheist/agnostic.

but are there real numbers? maybe both raw numbers and numbers according to population ratios?

i'd actually expect the ratio to be higher with atheist/agnostic since they face more antagonism and therefore are more likely to lash out violently (much like the middle east but nowhere near as dire in most cases). probably muslims, atheist, christian in terms of the ratios.

chever
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26 Aug 2008, 4:08 pm

LKL wrote:

Quote:

LKL wrote:

Sure- when he's studied biology or physics for a few years, and he's still devoutely Lutheran, I'll take that as a point.

Why this restriction?

Mathematics (at least until you get to chaos theory and/or statistics) only encourages the belief that things can be 'known' in the real world.

I am currently studying mathematical probability and statistics in my free time. In doing so, I can 'terminate' future coursework and get a head start on decision theory, which I should really have a good command of, considering I want to be an AI researcher.

Since I can't draw worth a shit, I'm looking to start rendering IFS's as an exercise for Common Lisp, so I guess that's related to complexity theory somehow. I have only a little superficial familiarity with it otherwise.

In any case, none of my mathematical experience has said given any confirmation or doubt of the supernatural, with the exception of raising some doubts about how the mind can be entirely physical when it acts the way it does. I'm inclined to agree with Descartes about dualism. Otherwise, it's entirely irrelevant in my view.

LKL wrote:

Simple objects like stars and simple systems like computers can be fairly well understood by human brains and fairly well described by calculus. It's not a study that encourages humility or the understanding that humans will never 'know' everything.

Maybe in the nineteenth century.

LKL wrote:

'purity' in this case being synonymous with 'sterility' and 'simplicity.' I do enjoy xkcd, though.

Better said, 'broad' and 'deep'.

And simplicity is good.

corroonb wrote:

No, they're just irritating.

People can be fanatically devoted to violent secular causes as well, btw.

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Last edited by chever on 26 Aug 2008, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twoshots
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26 Aug 2008, 4:09 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Geometry, has some relevance. I meant Euclidean geometry though. Trigonometry is the most used part of geometry in physics that I've seen. Otherwise I don't see theorems and postulates being used in physics, nor the two column proof. It could be, I suppose, but I haven't seen that done in practice yet.

The more into physics you get the more mathematical it gets; it seemed to me from my physics classes that proofs have their significance (if you have a small set of premises about reality, then you extend them to more complicated scenarios by essentially a proof I think). And non-Euclidean geometry is the standard in relativity theory; even Minkowski space doesn't have the Euclidean metric (Pythagorean theorem).

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26 Aug 2008, 4:12 pm

corroonb wrote:

Is anyone actually afraid of atheists?

I would find an atheist police officer.. armed with a tazar.. pepper spray.. and a fierce dog.. very very frightening..... =:-0

Especially if I had some drugs in my pocket.. :-(

(strictly for the innocent purpose of experimenting.. of course).

He might make the mistake of confusing me with a criminal.. :-0

Yep.. atheists can be real scarey too... =:-0

Especiallly.. if they're deluded.

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Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Last edited by Accelerator on 26 Aug 2008, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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26 Aug 2008, 4:14 pm

LKL wrote:

It's inadmissible in a published article, yes - but it's perfectly acceptable when one is formulating a hypothesis or debating online.

Perfectly acceptable like formulating The God hypothesis?

I agree with chever here, that anecdotal accounts are not to be considered valid demonstrable evidence, certainly not when debating online in a forum like this, that is an interesting thing that seems to have happened here, some members here might use their own personal experience or accounts to support their arguments, as providing evidence according to them, and those are not so much of real value, considering that to be subjective experiences with subjective interpretations of events, a part from going to a biased direction with such interpretations, are often unreliable and questionable.

LKL wrote:

Funny, most of the scientists I know are atheists. Given that I've been training with them in a University for years, I know quite a few. How many trained scientists do you know?

Quote:

Funny thing - most atheists are former believers; most religionists are born into it.

if there isn't any source of study or empirical evidence to support these statements, which it seems to be stated with some degree of certainty, it does not provide real proof for these claims, and it becomes just a conjecture or even so, perhaps just a personal opinion, depending on the case.

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Last edited by greenblue on 26 Aug 2008, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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26 Aug 2008, 4:26 pm

skafather84 wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

corroonb wrote:

Yeah, atheists seem to be relegated to being internet trolls. It's not like they shoot up schools or burn down churches or anything violent....

If you were to calculate the percentage of population of religious group which became a terrorist, as in a vigilante and not a government -so this would exclude the actions of the Nazis, Soviets, Chinese and Vietnamese communists, as well as the Inquisition- what would you expect to find? Also, in this apriori model, Atheism is consider a religious view since it has to do with religion, albeit in a negative sense.

LKL
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26 Aug 2008, 4:41 pm

corroonb
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26 Aug 2008, 4:54 pm

LKL wrote:

http://www.mattbors.com/archives/321.html

sartresue
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26 Aug 2008, 6:15 pm

The "Ist" of the matter topic

I must admit I did not read all the posts here, only about five pages, but I felt I just had to comment. I will try to read the rest as soon as I am able.

I am not against religion as such, or even against the idea or reality of a god or supreme being. At least in Western democracy, we have the right to believe. I am not interested in converting others to my way of non-belief in a supreme deity. I am not an a-theist. I consider myself a non-theist.

But I am not interested in radical deism, like Islamism, Christian fundieism and the like. Even some politics is radically deistic, like Maoism, Castroism, Stalinism, and Naziism. The cult of personality or supreme personality is evil, and this is what turns me off such beliefs. I am just glad this crap does not triumph in the West, though such weeds will spring up now and then.

Crusades of any stripe are not welcome in my home.

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chever
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26 Aug 2008, 7:24 pm

War will not cease to be if everyone becomes an atheist

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twoshots
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26 Aug 2008, 7:32 pm

But the excuses will be less colorful.

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26 Aug 2008, 7:52 pm

chever wrote:

War will not cease to be if everyone becomes an atheist

A reading from the Book of Job, fifth chapter, verses one through seven...

JOB 5:1-7 wrote:

"(1) Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn? (2) For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one. (4) I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation. (4) His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither [is there] any to deliver [them]. (5) Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance. (6) Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground; (7) Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward."

-KJV

If everyone became an Atheist, who would quote the Bible?

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chever
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26 Aug 2008, 8:22 pm

Fnord wrote:

chever wrote:

War will not cease to be if everyone becomes an atheist

A reading from the Book of Job, fifth chapter, verses one through seven...

JOB 5:1-7 wrote:

-KJV

If everyone became an Atheist, who would quote the Bible?

Bible quoting is not the cause of war. There were many horrific wars before Christianity came into being. Usually religion is only a dressing for a real underlying conflict.

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skafather84
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26 Aug 2008, 8:30 pm

chever wrote:

Fnord wrote:

chever wrote:

War will not cease to be if everyone becomes an atheist

A reading from the Book of Job, fifth chapter, verses one through seven...

JOB 5:1-7 wrote:

-KJV

If everyone became an Atheist, who would quote the Bible?

Bible quoting is not the cause of war. There were many horrific wars before Christianity came into being. Usually religion is only a dressing for a real underlying conflict.

would you dare to say that it's an excuse of convenience?

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