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Redd_Kross
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23 Nov 2020, 11:03 pm

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Special interests are most welcome to be discussed in appropriate parts of the forum.
PPR special interests should not be discussed outside PPR.
Unless someone identifies as neo-nazi or voices support for genocides, calling them a nazi will be interpreted as an insult.
Unless someone identifies as fascist, calling them fascist will be interpreted as an insult, regardless of subtle fascist-nazi distinguishing.
Insulting political leaders and other public figures is permitted. Insulting WP members or groups consisting them is not.


Any reasonable person would see things this way.


Not necessarily.

For starters there are plenty of people out there who know "fascist" and "Nazi" are both labels that bring instant suspicion. Whereas if you dress the same beliefs up in new clothes, they're a lot more palatable to the average mug in the street.

Secondly there's the point that it's perfectly possible to hold fascist / neo-Nazi views without realizing you're a fascist or a neo-Nazi. This whole area of politics seems to be a bit of an irony and awareness free zone.

Thirdly, pivoting the whole issue around open support for genocide is a very extreme case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. That is NOT necessarily a defining characteristic of Nazism, but rather a possible long-term consequence of it. There are plenty of other ways to hate people, discriminate against them, and make their lives very difficult and short. Same values, same objectives, different implementation. What we need to be looking for is the degree of overall similarity in political movements. I listed around 20 fascist / neo-Nazi traits earlier, not one of them was "genocide", but collectively they all point in that direction. Obviously the greater the correlation the greater the risk.

I'd love to say the chances of a full house are pretty rare, but I'm not convinced. There seems to be an expectation that 2020s white supremacists will still be marching around in KKK robes or Nazi uniforms. They might be, true enough, but it's fair to say some of them might have cottoned on to the need to be a bit more subtle in their attire. That doesn't mean the underlying values have changed an awful lot.



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23 Nov 2020, 11:49 pm

David Duke dresses normally.....



Tempus Fugit
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24 Nov 2020, 12:46 am

Redd_Kross wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
cberg wrote:
I have offered to maintain the site before, I'll get a good laugh out of getting banned from the outside by some dude who just walked in & played this card.

I think the political movement here is in the interest of debate without truth. When the facts don't suit the alt-right narrative, they politicize hate in any convoluted way possible & pin the blame on those who give it names.


There you go calling me alt-right again


No, no he didn't. You just assumed that post was aimed specifically at you.

Persecution complex, much?


Simple detection based on reading similarly written material over a period of years.



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24 Nov 2020, 12:49 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Off Topic
I have been here since 2013 and I have apparently not noticed the successful conspiracy by WP SJW's to drive out anybody that is not sufficiently woke. It all has gone by my autistic brain apparently. I have also apparently missed all the autistic WP alt-right supporters using euphemisms to hide who they are. There have a few I have strongly suspecteda few members of being alt right but they have never defined WP to me.

For the record when I created this thread I did not have WP in mind.


You haven't seen the SJW takeover? You must be one of them! /humor

Frankly I don't think anyone on here is an actual nazi or fascist either. But that's why it seems so weird when people almost seem to take it personally when someone says anything about nazis or fascists at all. Even if there are none on here, there ARE those who do deservingly wear the label out in the real world.

Things like racism, sexism, and general bigotry can be trickier. Sometimes the person genuinely believes the thing they think they "know" about one group or another. Some people genuinely believe that black people are less intelligent and more violent in general, and that any that are smart or aren't violent are the exception rather than the rule. To them, there's nothing racist about assuming a black person is stupid and violent, cos to them, they usually are stupid and violent, so it's a fair assumption. Sometimes the only thing that makes a racist a racist is believing in a stereotype.

"But stereotypes are usually based on truth! If the shoe fits...!"

Stereotypes are based on just enough "truth" to make them look valid and drag the rest of the assumptions along with it, and often times, they're forced or contrived. That's why black-face existed. You could make black people look as stupid as you wanted by acting like a fool, and claiming it was a realistic portrayal. If you put a REAL black person on stage, and they actually happened to be SMART, and people SAW that, it would ruin the whole narrative. Same goes for cartoons. Make them look like ignorant savages. Don't teach them to read or write, punish them if they try, then claim they're stupid cos they "can't" read or write. Point out that black-on-black crime happens more than black-on-white crime, but ignore the fact that white on white crime happens just as much as black-on-black crime, and also ignore that that's because we still live in heavily segregated neighborhoods.

When you grow up seeing people portrayed a certain way, real or not, if you ever do see someone who happens to fit that profile, confirmation bias kicks in, and of course they're all like that, everyone knows they're like that. That's why some people see racism and sexism as merely a matter of "political correctness" - "oh, you cant call the lazy criminals 'lazy' or 'criminals' anymore" is how they'd see it. But they wouldn't see how their view of the world might have been distorted in the first place.


And these are the sort of people who cry censorship and talk about SJWs and say there is a liberal agenda. They will also say they are not racist because they have black friends. They will also insist they don't see skin color and everyone is equal. They refuse to see their own bias and feel threatened and attacked when anyone talks about racism and they will claim anyone is a bigot for not accepting their opinion and belief. These sort of people will claim we are the bullies when we call them out on it.

No one likes to see their own ideas and thoughts being called racist so when anyone calls them out on it without actually talking to them, they feel attacked and bullied because their ideology was attacked, their opinion was attacked.


BTW we are allowed to attack ideas here and opinions but not the user itself which is what we are doing here.


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24 Nov 2020, 12:57 am

Tempus Fugit wrote:
Redd_Kross wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
cberg wrote:
I have offered to maintain the site before, I'll get a good laugh out of getting banned from the outside by some dude who just walked in & played this card.

I think the political movement here is in the interest of debate without truth. When the facts don't suit the alt-right narrative, they politicize hate in any convoluted way possible & pin the blame on those who give it names.


There you go calling me alt-right again


No, no he didn't. You just assumed that post was aimed specifically at you.

Persecution complex, much?


Simple detection based on reading similarly written material over a period of years.


Probably because we've seen this before.


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Tempus Fugit
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24 Nov 2020, 1:20 am

Like I said, it's been going on for years.



Last edited by Tempus Fugit on 24 Nov 2020, 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

cberg
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24 Nov 2020, 1:25 am

That's why you're basically just trolling. You're quite correct I don't wish to associate asinine nonsense such as maintaining this as the main thread of a site for kids having a tough time...

Mods either lock this one or IP permaban us both, I don't want to be associated with a political climate tolerant of this any longer.


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24 Nov 2020, 1:32 am

cberg wrote:
That's why you're basically just trolling. You're quite correct I don't wish to associate asinine nonsense such as maintaining this as the main thread of a site for kids having a tough time...

Mods either lock this one or IP permaban us both, I don't want to be associated with a political climate tolerant of this any longer.



It would be sad to see you go. Another long term member lost. :(


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Pepe
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24 Nov 2020, 3:13 am

Redd_Kross wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Special interests are most welcome to be discussed in appropriate parts of the forum.
PPR special interests should not be discussed outside PPR.
Unless someone identifies as neo-nazi or voices support for genocides, calling them a nazi will be interpreted as an insult.
Unless someone identifies as fascist, calling them fascist will be interpreted as an insult, regardless of subtle fascist-nazi distinguishing.
Insulting political leaders and other public figures is permitted. Insulting WP members or groups consisting them is not.


Any reasonable person would see things this way.


Not necessarily.

For starters there are plenty of people out there who know "fascist" and "Nazi" are both labels that bring instant suspicion. Whereas if you dress the same beliefs up in new clothes, they're a lot more palatable to the average mug in the street.

Secondly there's the point that it's perfectly possible to hold fascist / neo-Nazi views without realizing you're a fascist or a neo-Nazi. This whole area of politics seems to be a bit of an irony and awareness free zone.

Thirdly, pivoting the whole issue around open support for genocide is a very extreme case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. That is NOT necessarily a defining characteristic of Nazism, but rather a possible long-term consequence of it. There are plenty of other ways to hate people, discriminate against them, and make their lives very difficult and short. Same values, same objectives, different implementation. What we need to be looking for is the degree of overall similarity in political movements. I listed around 20 fascist / neo-Nazi traits earlier, not one of them was "genocide", but collectively they all point in that direction. Obviously the greater the correlation the greater the risk.

I'd love to say the chances of a full house are pretty rare, but I'm not convinced. There seems to be an expectation that 2020s white supremacists will still be marching around in KKK robes or Nazi uniforms. They might be, true enough, but it's fair to say some of them might have cottoned on to the need to be a bit more subtle in their attire. That doesn't mean the underlying values have changed an awful lot.


This is rather simples:
If someone is displaying fascist ideology, call it out.

If you can't, don't call someone a fascist.
It will be seen as a personal attack. 8)



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24 Nov 2020, 3:24 am

Redd_Kross wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
cberg wrote:
I have offered to maintain the site before, I'll get a good laugh out of getting banned from the outside by some dude who just walked in & played this card.

I think the political movement here is in the interest of debate without truth. When the facts don't suit the alt-right narrative, they politicize hate in any convoluted way possible & pin the blame on those who give it names.


There you go calling me alt-right again


No, no he didn't. You just assumed that post was aimed specifically at you.

Persecution complex, much?


The problem I have with some of cberg's posts is that he sometimes doesn't indicate who he is addressing.
I have actually asked him to clarify who he is talking to, on a number of occasions.
A simple part quote from someone he is replying to, or an "@Pepe", as an example, would clarify. 8)
Or if it is a general comment, just say: "This is a general comment." 8)



Pepe
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24 Nov 2020, 3:27 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
cberg wrote:
I have offered to maintain the site before, I'll get a good laugh out of getting banned from the outside by some dude who just walked in & played this card.

I think the political movement here is in the interest of debate without truth. When the facts don't suit the alt-right narrative, they politicize hate in any convoluted way possible & pin the blame on those who give it names.


There you go calling me alt-right again which has been combined with white supremacist, racist, fascist and nazi here over the years. The "certain posters" are the ones who use those terms as a weapon and they are ones who mixed them interchangeable.


There you go, diving in front of a shot to get intentionally hit by it, even though it wasn't aimed at you.


This is the problem with vague accusations/insinuations.
What can I say? 8)



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24 Nov 2020, 3:29 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I respect the hard work that the mods do here. They are constantly keeping an eye on at least 50 very unique people.


And one super-duper genius of a skunk. 8)



Tempus Fugit
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24 Nov 2020, 3:50 am

Redd_Kross wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Special interests are most welcome to be discussed in appropriate parts of the forum.
PPR special interests should not be discussed outside PPR.
Unless someone identifies as neo-nazi or voices support for genocides, calling them a nazi will be interpreted as an insult.
Unless someone identifies as fascist, calling them fascist will be interpreted as an insult, regardless of subtle fascist-nazi distinguishing.
Insulting political leaders and other public figures is permitted. Insulting WP members or groups consisting them is not.


Any reasonable person would see things this way.


Not necessarily.

For starters there are plenty of people out there who know "fascist" and "Nazi" are both labels that bring instant suspicion. Whereas if you dress the same beliefs up in new clothes, they're a lot more palatable to the average mug in the street.


Right the disguised altright-facism-racism-nazism that only the astute sjwarrior can decode and tell you what the person is "really" saying.

Redd_Kross wrote:
Secondly there's the point that it's perfectly possible to hold fascist / neo-Nazi views without realizing you're a fascist or a neo-Nazi. This whole area of politics seems to be a bit of an irony and awareness free zone.


Right you don't know that you'e an nazi, only the sjwarriors can tell that you're really a nazi.

Both 1 and 2 are making stuff up about someone and then using it against them.



Tempus Fugit
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24 Nov 2020, 3:59 am

Pepe wrote:
Redd_Kross wrote:
Tempus Fugit wrote:
cberg wrote:
I have offered to maintain the site before, I'll get a good laugh out of getting banned from the outside by some dude who just walked in & played this card.

I think the political movement here is in the interest of debate without truth. When the facts don't suit the alt-right narrative, they politicize hate in any convoluted way possible & pin the blame on those who give it names.


There you go calling me alt-right again


No, no he didn't. You just assumed that post was aimed specifically at you.

Persecution complex, much?


The problem I have with some of cberg's posts is that he sometimes doesn't indicate who he is addressing.
I have actually asked him to clarify who he is talking to, on a number of occasions.
A simple part quote from someone he is replying to, or an "@Pepe", as an example, would clarify. 8)
Or if it is a general comment, just say: "This is a general comment." 8)


Who else could "some dude who just walked in from the outside" be referring to? Redd Kross? I doubt it.



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24 Nov 2020, 4:07 am

Guys, I see too many personal insinuations in this thread that have appeared when I was asleep.

 ! magz wrote:
I believe the topic is valid and I don't want to lock this thread but if it keeps being dominated by personal fights, I will have to.


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24 Nov 2020, 4:34 am

If people start getting punished for speaking the truth that would be time to involve the ownership to clarify policy. Such behaviour would contribute to a toxic environment and won't serve to make this place better.


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