Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.

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auntblabby
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19 Sep 2021, 2:25 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

so we are not allowed to call a person what they by definition are then, check. i shall just have to print out the full definition and let people make up their own minds-

"a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile to white people; a person regarded as betraying their cultural or social allegiance."
somebody tell me how Elder is NOT carrying the white [RICH] man's water for him? somebody please tell me how Elder is not systematically in league with an entire political party working against the good of his own people?

There is no need to use a word that a whole community is likely to consider offensive, no matter how well you think it fits. It is my understanding that the term is considered insensitive and offensive if you or I use it. I don't care how many times you define it; if we are considerate people, we do not use it.

As for it fits, IMHO, it is not our place to say. You aren't accusing him of betraying your culture; you are accusing him of betraying someone else's. Let those you believe are betrayed speak for themselves on it. Beginning and end of it to me.

so we're not allowed to criticize him in any way?

Dox47
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19 Sep 2021, 3:39 pm

auntblabby wrote:

so we're not allowed to criticize him in any way?

How hard is it to understand "don't use racial slurs"?

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auntblabby
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19 Sep 2021, 3:43 pm

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

Dox47
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19 Sep 2021, 3:49 pm

auntblabby wrote:

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

No, the particular term you used earlier was, one that you've used repeatedly over the years and continually tried to justify because you think it's accurate. No one is saying you can't criticize Larry Elder (or any other black person), that's a misreading of what's been said, what people are saying it don't use racial slurs like Uncle Tom, that's completely unacceptable.

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DW_a_mom
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19 Sep 2021, 3:50 pm

auntblabby wrote:

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

That isn’t what anyone has said. Feel free to describe what bothers you about Elder. Say you think he believes in policies that hurt the black community. Feel free to describe those policies and why. Would that not be criticism? What you don’t need to do is apply a label or name to what you think of him.

Also, it is not about “allowed.” It’s about knowing that certain terms are hurtful to certain communities, paying enough attention so as to be informed enough to know that, and caring enough to not want to perpetuate that hurt. It is difficult to make a case that someone else is a bad and uncaring person if you can’t bother yourself to learn what words a community finds unacceptable.

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 19 Sep 2021, 4:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

auntblabby
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19 Sep 2021, 3:53 pm

i will say i believe him to be a bad person with bad motivations and leave it at that.

DW_a_mom
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19 Sep 2021, 3:54 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Which one is a racial slur? do you mean this one
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... d=93059468
If its this one then African Americans have a reason to loathe the caricature (despite the author's attempt to pain him as "noble").

Or the cringey Disney Uncle Remus?
https://www.indiewire.com/gallery/song- ... mber-this/

I’ve stated my position best I know how to. I’ve done all the dissecting I feel it appropriate for me to do. There are plenty of ways to research these questions on your own and plenty of actual experts who can be consulted.

I also can’t speak to differences in how words may be perceived in different English speaking countries. I know a little of how black communities in the US feel, and a little about the reasons behind it, but there could be an entirely different set of emotions and needs where you are. Learn from the people who have experienced the pain of racism themselves, not those of us still learning ourselves.

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VegetableMan
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19 Sep 2021, 6:40 pm

auntblabby wrote:

i will say i believe him to be a bad person with bad motivations and leave it at that.

That's a good position. You shouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks of your opinion. I don't.

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19 Sep 2021, 7:00 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Hmm, see, a large part of my objection to wokeness is actually these kinds of attempts to make special carve outs and rules for who gets to say what, or if something is racist or not depending on who said it, regardless of intent. To me, it's just as racist for a black person to call another Uncle Tom as it is when someone of a different race does it, as the term is itself racist, it only applies to black people and is used to attempt to police acceptable opinion within the group, you can't really deracialize it, a white conservative is just a conservative, but a black one gets abused with this epithet. A number of my black partners over the years had to deal with similar taunts, though it was more of the Oreo variety used on black people who excel in school or don't speak in vernacular, who aren't culturally black enough for whoever is doing the taunting. I don't think I have to be black to condemn that sort of behavior, or to call it out as racist, as a black person should be allowed to choose how they culturally present themself.

And you are surprised about the abundance of hypocrisy, double standards and hyperpartisan groupthink, why? :scratch:

Overwhelmingly, "Ethical politics" is an oxymoron.
I would have thought most would be aware of that.

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19 Sep 2021, 7:07 pm

auntblabby wrote:

so we're not allowed to criticize him in any way?

Correct. <disingenuous> :mrgreen:

Yours is the land of free speech, after all. <tongue in cheek>

auntblabby wrote:

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

Blabs, seriously.
You aren't gunna win this one.

I suggest you call out "uncle"blabby! :mrgreen:

cyberdad
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20 Sep 2021, 4:07 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

[ I know a little of how black communities in the US feel, and a little about the reasons behind it, but there could be an entirely different set of emotions and needs where you are. Learn from the people who have experienced the pain of racism themselves, not those of us still learning ourselves.

It might surprise you but American culture and language has long infiltrated literature, the media and common vernacular in Australia for decades. The term that has been deemed offensive is well known here, but the context is different.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commen ... f623a2eb73

Here in Australia as early as the 1950s the term was used as slur by white people against aboriginals who tried to "better themselves". Kind of a mocking a person who doesn't know their place or station in life,

Nowadays its aimed by aboriginals at aboriginals who do deals with the government https://capeyorkpartnership.org.au/medi ... ustralian/

In America it seems to be commonly thrown by black people at their own who they call "sellouts"
https://theconversation.com/how-uncle-t ... ics-152201

Dox47
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20 Sep 2021, 4:46 am

cyberdad wrote:

That's bizarre, I've seen American racecraft do some strange things when it's picked up in other countries that don't have the same history as us, but Uncle Tom is so specific to the US that I'm kind of surprised to see it jump to another country with largely the same meaning and intent.

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cyberdad
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20 Sep 2021, 5:04 am

A lot of what we learn from comes from TV. Not surprisingly its mostly American content, Our local productions and their poor budgets and substandard acting can't compete.

Mr Reynholm
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20 Sep 2021, 10:00 am

auntblabby wrote:

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?

Mr Reynholm
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20 Sep 2021, 10:01 am

auntblabby wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

so we're not allowed to criticize him in any way?

He's not carrying the water for the right white people is what has the Democrats in a tizzy.

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20 Sep 2021, 10:20 am

Mr Reynholm wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

so any criticism of him is a "racial slur"? how orwellian.

Any criticism of Obama was a racial slur so why the double standard?

To some, it's not the principle, it's the "side" that matters...

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Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy.