Religions were founded by schizophrenics

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iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 12:03 am

Sand wrote:

There are magnitudes of difference between people who can be indifferent to the suffering of others and those, like ruveyn, who openly confessed to delight in schadenfreude and actively participate in sadistic entertainments of torturing animals and helpless humans.

And there are people who don't like seeing other people hurt, particularly loved ones. Some people can't stand anyone being hurt.

The idea that being a self centered jerk is logical, is ludicrous. But if anyone cares to drag a dead horse and argue that it is, fine. It's still not ideal.

skafather84
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14 Aug 2009, 12:12 am

The things you own end up owning you.

The original thing that owns most everyone is faith and belief.

Which is why I'm such a big fan of chaos magick. It sees faith and belief for what they are: tools of the psyche for one to use at their will provided the right meditation and practice.

Some people noticed early on how such things defined how people acted and they took advantage of it. The most famous being Constantine who formed such an empire around it that it still exists and wields influence today.

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iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 1:39 am

skafather84 wrote:

Are you referring to the Roman Catholic Church or the Greek Orthodox Church as "Constantine's Empire"? Or are you claiming he founded the Christian Faith? If you were referring to the Roman Empire, that was founded by Gaius Julius Caesar, and rescued at birth by Mark Anthony and Octavius. Constantine was responsible for the division of the Eastern and Western Roman Empires however, and thus the development of the Byzantine Empire which lasted for about a thousand years after the decline of the Western Empire. Also, the Byzantines were responsible for ceasing the advancement of the Islamic world into eastern Europe from the 700's to the 1400's when Byzantium fell to the Ottoman Turks.

ruveyn
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14 Aug 2009, 1:50 am

Without a doubt, the notion of a Sky Daddy is a version of Hearing Voices. The Prophets, when they were not lying, were almost certainly scihitzophrenic.

Any person who really believed he saw a dry bush burn without being reduced to ashes and who believed the bush spoke to him would be diagnosed as delusional.

O.K., O.K. In a dry climate such as the Sinai desert a bush with pointy branches could exhibit electrostatic discharge (St. Elmo's Fire). But a Talking Bush? Come on!

ruveyn

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 2:04 am

ruveyn wrote:

And if the Prophets who were not lying kept making accurate predictions, would they just be lucky?

Also, for the burning bush, or the parting of the Red Sea, or any other miracle, what if it's not a natural phenomena?

If there is nothing beyond what you know, then wouldn't you be omniscient then?

Sand
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14 Aug 2009, 2:41 am

A talking Bush was president of he US for 8 years and although he might not have been schizophrenic he sure was paranoid.

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 3:03 am

Sand wrote:

A talking Bush was president of he US for 8 years and although he might not have been schizophrenic he sure was paranoid.

Are you sure? I find that various media will either call him stupid and make fun of his speeches, "bushisms", and otherwise make degrading comments about his intelligence, OR they will claim that he "fooled America" or "fooled the world" or "deceived everybody" or somehow cunningly tricked us about entering the war on terror, because Everyone knows the U.S. Government launched plane-shaped nuclear missiles at the World Trade Center so that we could drill for oil in Alaska and convert government vehicles to E85.

CaroleTucson
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14 Aug 2009, 8:24 am

Magnus wrote:

Schizophrenia isn't by its nature a horrible condition. It is only through social conditioning that such labels become an "epidemic".

No one said anything about "epidemics". I can't respond to your bizarre assertion other than to say I hope you never have to live through a day as a schizophrenic.

Quote:

I love that you brought up the chimp rain dance though. Many animals display "delusional" acts of what appears to be pure enjoyment for enjoyments sake. :wink:

You misrepresented what I said. I think that's what is delusional here.

skafather84
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14 Aug 2009, 8:36 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Referring to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern day Catholic church, which appears to be a historical offshoot from that empire and a group that obviously still wields massive political and sociological power over people.

Magnus
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14 Aug 2009, 8:48 am

skafather84 wrote:

Was it really schizophrenia or just temporary schizophrenic moments caused by ingestion of products like psilocybin mushrooms and peyote buttons?

Also on that note:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_re ... 11_06.html

Psilocybin mushrooms are Johns Hopkins approved.

The 2 percent of the population that are able to go into altered states of consciousness at will are much more likely to want to use hallucinogenics, but yeah I agree that they were probably normal people undergoing a psychosis as well as schizophrenics who founded religions. Then the elites funded them so they could gain loyalty through this emotional aspect (spirituality) which is in our nature.

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Magnus
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14 Aug 2009, 8:59 am

CaroleTucson wrote:

Magnus wrote:

Schizophrenia isn't by its nature a horrible condition. It is only through social conditioning that such labels become an "epidemic".

No one said anything about "epidemics". I can't respond to your bizarre assertion other than to say I hope you never have to live through a day as a schizophrenic.

Did you read the original post? Schizophrenia is on the rise as is autism, but sorry for calling it an epidemic. Take an advil...

Quote:

I love that you brought up the chimp rain dance though. Many animals display "delusional" acts of what appears to be pure enjoyment for enjoyments sake. :wink:

You misrepresented what I said. I think that's what is delusional here.

Did you read the original post? I have schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is on the rise as is autism, but sorry for calling it an epidemic. Take an advil...

You misinterpreted what I meant. My opinion is that the chimps are engaging in emotional displays of dismay at the rain. I doubt they logically think they can really stop the rain but they do the raindance anyways because it is more enjoyable than just sitting in the rain being miserable. Notice how I put the word "delusional" in quotes? If they think that they are really going to stop the rain then it is a delusional act but because I don't know for sure what they are thinking I assume that they are enjoying themselves while doing/watching the rain dance more so than they are enjoying squatting in the forest and getting soaked.

Sand
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14 Aug 2009, 9:02 am

Magnus wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Just be a bit careful about using all inclusive terms.

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14 Aug 2009, 9:04 am

Okay, so it's not in your nature. Generally though, humans have emotions and represent them with spiritual terms and such.

iamnotaparakeet
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14 Aug 2009, 9:08 am

skafather84 wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Uh, the "Holy Roman Empire" actually had nothing to do with Rome, or any other part of Italy. Just a bunch of Germanic states playing with labels ruled by people with the wishful title of Kaiser. It's relationship to Constantine is about equivalent, or perhaps less than equivalent, to the kings of Russia calling themselves Czar. Constantine's main improvement for Christians in the Roman Empire, was the Edict Of Milan, allowing Christians to worship openly without the normal continual death by torture and also that they could own and inherit property and elect the officials who govern the churches rather than have the state control who is in charge. The emperor responsible for declaring Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire was not Constantine, but Theodosius I in 380 AD, which is 43 years after Constantine died.

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15 Aug 2009, 2:05 am

CaroleTucson wrote:

I think it's undoubtedly true that intense feelings of "oneness with God" come about as a result of altered states of consciousness. That's a long way from schizophrenia, however. Schizophrenia is a horrible condition, and it makes your life a living hell. To equate it with the beautiful spiritual insights of Jesus or Mohammed or Rama Krishna is beyond absurd.

Its understandable if you are short on knowledge of mental illness, but there is a particular mental illness(hypermania) that leaves the victim euphoric, self confident and strangely, is often utterly horrible to experience. Its said that its worse than depression by far.

Often comes with schizophrenia and paranoia as well.

To me it looks just like the preachers at Evangelist Revivals. Weaving and shaking, jabbering in tongues. Touched by god.

The hyper manics are known for pleasurable excesses. Drugs and sex, and sometimes violence. I cant think of any revivalist preachers that were busted for 2 out of three of those things. Nope.

So I dont normally agree with Magnus, but in this case, I can see where the mentally ill could fit in very easily. Leaders of the community even.

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NeantHumain
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15 Aug 2009, 1:59 pm

Some other psychiatric or neurological disorders that may inspire religious visionaries/cult leaders include:

Bipolar disorder (manic episodes)
Epileptic seizures
Psychopathy
Narcissistic personality disorder

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