An argument against gay marriage that I've seen is:
Just because someone does something, does not mean that legal definitions must be twisted out of any sort of recognizable shape in order to accommodate that. Marriage is a contract - as such, it can only be entered into by entities capable of giving informed consent and signing a contract. Your toaster is not capable of this, nor is your dog (no matter how "smart" you believe your dog to be), nor is the Eiffel Tower (its size and age notwithstanding).

How can you prove empirically that the Golden Gate Bridge doesn't have a "soul"? I mean... clearly it doesn't. But an animist could claim religious discrimination and sexual bigotry if they're not allowed to marry their "soul" mate.
You may not be conscious of it but you are making a farce of the concept of a soul. It's a great move!
The only legal reference I've found to souls is from a couple of centuries back, when a British jurist held that a corporation could not commit treason or certain other crimes, "because it does not have a soul".
Other than that, find me a legal definition of the word "soul" and we can talk. Until then, it's more of a philosophical abstraction, no more relevant to the discussion than "morally right" or "free will"...
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My husband and I are not religious at all. We got married in Vegas by Elvis. God had no part in our ceremony (unless you consider Elvis to be God ) and has no part in our marriage. We love each other and we love being married. I see no reason whatsoever to deny any human couple this right.
I think there are a lot of reasons why people resist the idea. The majority of those who oppose gay marriage consider themselves deeply religious and say that it goes against God, but yet the church allows annulments. They say a gay couple cannot produce children, yet infertile heterosexual couples are allowed to marry. They say that if a gay couple did have kids that they would be "raised gay." Complete nonsense, and even if it was true/possible, then a hetero couple could also decide to raise gay kids. They really have no reason against gay marriage that cannot be said about a heterosexual couple. It's absolute bigotry at its finest driven by, perhaps, heterosexual insecurities and the yuck factor.
Just because someone does something, does not mean that legal definitions must be twisted out of any sort of recognizable shape in order to accommodate that. Marriage is a contract - as such, it can only be entered into by entities capable of giving informed consent and signing a contract. Your toaster is not capable of this, nor is your dog (no matter how "smart" you believe your dog to be), nor is the Eiffel Tower (its size and age notwithstanding).

How can you prove empirically that the Golden Gate Bridge doesn't have a "soul"? I mean... clearly it doesn't. But an animist could claim religious discrimination and sexual bigotry if they're not allowed to marry their "soul" mate.
You may not be conscious of it but you are making a farce of the concept of a soul. It's a great move!
Actually, yes... I was aware of it, and it made me laugh. I'm a weird kind of Christian...
From my admittedly atypical Christian perspective, I can't see why people get so hett up about human institutions like marriage. When Isaac married his wife, they didn't stand and intone a solemn oath in front of witnesses. They went into a tent and lay together...
I think people deify their preferred institutional concept, or way of understanding the world, and that can be a real problem.
Obviously, I know a lot of you don't believe in God, so don't jump down my throat when I say this... but just think: what do you think God would say to a Christian who spent their life paying more attention to human institutions than to looking after other human beings? Perhaps He'll say, "I think you missed the point, rather..."
Just because someone does something, does not mean that legal definitions must be twisted out of any sort of recognizable shape in order to accommodate that. Marriage is a contract - as such, it can only be entered into by entities capable of giving informed consent and signing a contract. Your toaster is not capable of this, nor is your dog (no matter how "smart" you believe your dog to be), nor is the Eiffel Tower (its size and age notwithstanding).

How can you prove empirically that the Golden Gate Bridge doesn't have a "soul"? I mean... clearly it doesn't. But an animist could claim religious discrimination and sexual bigotry if they're not allowed to marry their "soul" mate.
You may not be conscious of it but you are making a farce of the concept of a soul. It's a great move!
Actually, yes... I was aware of it, and it made me laugh. I'm a weird kind of Christian...
From my admittedly atypical Christian perspective, I can't see why people get so hett up about human institutions like marriage. When Isaac married his wife, they didn't stand and intone a solemn oath in front of witnesses. They went into a tent and lay together...
I think people deify their preferred institutional concept, or way of understanding the world, and that can be a real problem.
Obviously, I know a lot of you don't believe in God, so don't jump down my throat when I say this... but just think: what do you think God would say to a Christian who spent their life paying more attention to human institutions than to looking after other human beings? Perhaps He'll say, "I think you missed the point, rather..."
I do feel God is an unnecessary accoutrement but I agree that your version would accord him more sense than is normally bestowed by organized religion.
1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like left handedness.
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile
couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs
more children.
3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents
only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed,
since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at
all; women are property, blacks can't marry whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the
majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the
rights of the minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the
values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have
only one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that
hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy
behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal
standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10. Children can never suceed without a male and a female role model at
home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual
marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new
social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer
lifespans.
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a
different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is
always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as
well as separate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
Since all of these points are outrageous nonsense it's obvious this guy is a troll and not to be taken seriously.
Yeah and I think I know who it is...
_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan
I think a better argument is possible, just it would have a lot of questionable premises.
*sigh* Always the smartass.
I doubt they want to promote divine command theory, they likely have a view of natural rights, which means that they feel as if they have a commitment to proving this outside of scripture.
http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/sun ... 32519.html
In other words, if anybody of any mental condition accomplishes something, the action must be OK?
Objectively, if there is no moral objection to redefining marriage in one way, what is to stop people from redefining it in another way?
The initial premise of this thread was that it would be ridiculous to assume marriage could be redefined to include a "contract" between a human and an object. I was demonstrating that this has already been attempted, at least by some.
I do think that mgran has a valid point in saying "Objectively, if there is no moral objection to redefining marriage in one way, what is to stop people from redefining it in another way? "
As Sand, your rebuttal wasn't much of one, as there was no claim the action was ok, but rather that there was no reason to not allow it.
Marriage is also a legal arrangement that represents social beliefs. I mean, human-animal marriage has historically occurred. So, saying "marriage is defined in a manner that excludes animals" is questionable because historically marriages have included animals based upon cultural issues.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-animal_marriage
And of course, if marriage can be defined differently, why not? Marriage is just a legal arrangement, and people get to decide laws to some extent. The only two reasons not to change this, is if marriage represents more than a legal/social term and has some metaphysical element to it, or if changing the definition of marriage in such a manner is hurtful to individuals in society.
So right, if we have married animals in the past, why not now?
Well, if we started using the terms in legal matters, then we would get legal definitions for it, wouldn't we? So, really, why should a socially constructed organism say what can and cannot be relevant?

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