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Rather strange that the aliens in Avatar use human facial expressions that can be decoded by human brains. People on this forum have difficulty to understand facial expressions of their own specie, so imagine how hard it can be to decode a alien...



Have you seen Princess Mononoke? It's the same isuues as Avatar (As far as I know, having yet to see Avatar...), but with a lot of realistic deep and complexity.

Last edited by Tollorin on 30 Dec 2009, 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That was a gnarly movie. Funny though, I think I may have compared that and Final Fantasy - Spirit Within to Avatar as well in another thread; I think it was my mention that it seemed like a bit of a japanimae plot.

I have not seen it. I assume it was in Japanese and since all translations are made into Finnish and my Finnish is not yet good enough to make sense of it I cannot see it and understand it.

It would be strange if we ran across aliens like the Na'vi in real life, but for the purposes of the story, it's actually to be expected. We, as an audience, are meant to develop an affinity for them, something that their near-humanness facilitates (imagine if the Na'vi had resembled say, Sigourney Weaver's nemesis from Alien; would you be able to be sympathetic to such creatures?) This extends to thead use of human-like emoting; the audience is very familiar how other people express their emotional states, so keying in to that allows the filmmakers to effectively convey the emotional state of the Na'vi. For thise of us who have difficulty reading facial expressions, we still get some benefit. While we may not be able to tell exactly what a facial expression for facial movement means, we are able to recognize when something doesn't move right (or when everything is moving the way we expect); this can aid in both suspension of disbelief, and with forging a connection between audience and character.

I have just seen the film, the effort put into the script and storyline is a minuscule percentage of the effort that must have been put into the cinematography/cgi. Mind you at times I wondered if in 10 years we are going to think the cgi tech used is incredibly lame. I also found it amusing that Sam Worthington sounded like Mel Gibson, but then Mel was raised an Aussie, so it is not surprising that an Aussie impersonating a yank would sound like Mel. BTW why are non US actors forced to use fake US accents, if there is a Yank in a AUssie movie, guess what, he is scripted as a yank.

A great movie from a visual point but shocking story line.

The plot is more specific than cattleman and Indians, it would seem according to this failblog meme:

That's funny. But I'm not too worried about the plot because it's older than Pocahontas, the concept of an imperial soldier going native goes back to Ancient Greece. These are simply classical archetypes. Most stories are stolen, either purposefully or by accident. All you can do is make them seem as original as possible.

I read today that people were feeling depressed about being unable to visit Pandora. It sounded like a bit of studio PR but it wouldn't surprise me if it were real.

I saw the 2D Avatar on opening day. I agree the writing
was cliched, but the detail in creating the world of Pandora
was very beautiful. A weekly newspaper in Portland pointed out
a 1957 sci-fi story called "Call Me Joe" has similarities
to Avatar. A link to the review will be provided soon.

However, the movie did address
the main question:
Would you destroy an indigenous community
to obtain a mineral?

This did make me think of the US' addiction
to foreign oil.

PS: It's a $5 surchage for any 3D movie in Portland.

Here is the link:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland ... id=1981119

Hi all!

I've seen Avatar twice in 2D and will see it again today in 3D (I'm skeptical about 3D). Not because the complexity of the plot necessitates it, not at all, but simply because of the feeling of being right. And for the pleasure of sharing something I like with my friends who I'm "showing off" the movie to by dragging them into it... ;-)

I think what commentators missed in this thread so far is what to me, makes this movie so outstanding: That a really big Hollywood blockbuster does a nice or even really good job at fighting for the oppressed. ANY oppressed species, or race. That's Avatar's real value, its moral message: Avatar says: Might does NOT make right!
This movie is POLITICAL! Extremely so! And it's good!
This message of Avatar is so important, especially in our times and for those who think might DOES make right (Israel and the USA come to mind first), that this movie truly is a revolution. - Even when countless other movies had similar moral messages, such as Emerald Forest, etc.
Morse so, because James Cameron is a US citizen himself, I see Avatar as a great criticism against his own country's politics. With Avatar, James Cameron is voting. Voting against. Against oppression. And millions of Avatar-fans are voting with him.

Now there are people who don't like Avatar, even in this thread.
The funny thing is that by coincidence, these people are usually also Zionists who believe that might makes right. Or at least when might is in their hands, not Hitler's.
Yes, surely the plot was "stolen", Pandora is common planet name in countless science fictions, the story is just like in "Call me Joe", "Emerald Forest", "Dancing with Wolves" and a little like "Princes Mononoke", etc.
Like many blockbusters, Avatar re-combines many things which have existed before to make a new "collage". It's just like the internet. People "steal" ideas and content, to re-factor it and make new stuff with it. Even if it's just a re-combination. Perhaps Cameron should pay some tributes to Paul Anderson who wrote "Call me Joe", who knows?
Most good films stole from previous content.
The Matrix stole from "Ghost in a Shell" (Anime), Star Wars stole from Alice in Wonderland, and even Terminator 1 stole from an existing science fiction story I read, etc.

What's relevant, is that a movie with a good moral message, such as Avatar, reaches so many people.
In China, people are identifying with the Na'vi for their government forcefully robbing their land and Avatar has become a political monster, stronger than any opposition which the ruling party has ever encountered. I'm sure in the middle east, Arabs and Palestinians are identifying with the Na'vi and Israel and Zionists have never met such a formidable propaganda adversary as Avatar. Same goes for native people. All oppressed by those who, for whatever reason, hold greater power in their hands and committing injustice and unright with it, can identify with Avatar and the Na'vi. That's Avatar's real quality!

Here's an example, perhaps taking this concept to the extreme which should make my point:
Avatar can even be seen as a pledge for animal rights. I run an animal rights page opposing animal castration and Avatar can even be seen as supporting this. You can read my review here:
www.animaldignity.org/generaltopics/ani ... ain_xx.php

I think anyone or any species oppressed by others can identify with Avatar. That's why I think Avatar is a fight against oppression, of any kind.
And this in a technically high-end science fiction. Come on guys, what do you want more?
:-)

Well it's a top bit of entertainment and James Cameron is master craftsman. But as Francois Truffaut said: it an anti-bourgeois film made by the bourgeois for the bourgeois.

Cameron is a billionaire after all and his $250million+ film took a massive amount of resources to produce. Filmmaking is one of the most wasteful artforms on the planet - this coming from one.

Waste is a strange concept in art. A creation takes what it needs to get done.

Some really good comments about the problems in the plot and the nuances that could have made it a better movie. I enjoyed the movie, and found the world created really beautiful, but I really disliked the portrayal of mankind, and I left the theatre with a negative feeling from that. People and life are much more complex.

I guess James Cameron is less a story guy than a detail guy. He creates amazing shots and scenes, and that is where his real gift seems to be. The plot is just good enough to hold it together, but not as good as it could be.

Not really about how awful humankind is in general though, as far as I can tell. It seems more about how awful Western civilization is, and in specific, Krader Industries from Ernest Goes To Camp.

But that's exactly it! That's EXACTLY what I like, no love so much about the movie.
Humans, more powerfully armed humans come away bad. They are.
I know life is more complex, but this is one of the rare movies which at least dares to say so! Even if it's simplified, it's still true, at least they got the main message right!
That's exactly what I feel is so wonderful and great about this movie. I love Cameron for it! I feel THAT is exactly what makes an otherwise full of bull**** Hollywood movie honest and truthful, "authentic".
Watching the slaughtering of the Na'vi, I can't help but think about Palestinians, Arabs, native people and about animals.
I guess you must be quite dissatisfied with western humans to like this move. I watched it again today with a friend, again I almost cried, darn I can't tell why, but I identify very strongly with this movie on an emotional level, and my friend thought it was a very predicable movie with a very simple plot. Perhaps I agree, but the fact that the biggest super power, western humans come away as the bad guys they really are, it's that exactly which makes the movie revolutionary and special. At least for a Hollywood blockbuster.
Perhaps it takes a certain level of political, environmental, humanitarian and other awareness to realize how great this very strong criticism of western humans is?

True... but if its theme is anti-consumption (anti-waste) - then isn't that theme somewhat corrupted? Kind of like the caterers serving the crew dolphin for dinner whilst the film The Cove...