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False belief: how bad is it?

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iamnotaparakeet
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29 Jun 2010, 11:42 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
"Socrates is not a bear."
"Bears are mortal."
"Good for bears, what about Socrates?"

Socrates is not mortal.


How? There are many other things than just bears which are mortal. ... and if you need proof then give me a rifle and a target. :twisted: :P



greenblue
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29 Jun 2010, 11:49 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
"Socrates is not a bear."
"Bears are mortal."
"Good for bears, what about Socrates?"

Socrates is not mortal.


How? There are many other things than just bears which are mortal. ... and if you need proof then give me a rifle and a target. :twisted: :P

well, if Socrates isn't indeed mortal, I think you would enjoy it more.


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iamnotaparakeet
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30 Jun 2010, 12:22 am

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
"Socrates is not a bear."
"Bears are mortal."
"Good for bears, what about Socrates?"

Socrates is not mortal.


How? There are many other things than just bears which are mortal. ... and if you need proof then give me a rifle and a target. :twisted: :P

well, if Socrates isn't indeed mortal, I think you would enjoy it more.


Nah, too much of that on Halo multiplayer where people use their excessive throughput lag in order to survive impossible situations.

It's no fun to do one's best at a goal and still fail, sort of like working for Wal-Mart.



leejosepho
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30 Jun 2010, 7:46 am

visagrunt wrote:
A boy's belief that he can fly from the roof of the house must be corrected ...


... and that brings up another point: Belief does not make things happen.

I once saw a video of a man jumping from a tall tower. He had designed and built a device he was wearing on his back at the time, and he most certainly believed he would thus be able to fly ... yet he did not even bouce when he hit the tarmac.

On the other hand, the Wright brothers began from the ground just in case ...


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visagrunt
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30 Jun 2010, 12:05 pm

leejosepho wrote:
I can appreciate the thought of a *healthy* society being a focus more grand than the mere pursuit of an accumulation of truth, but I can assure you "a free, educated and liberal society" will never actually know either!


Not to be facetious, but how can you make that assurance? I am not persuaded that a free, educated and liberal society has yet existed from which to draw an empirical observation.

But I choose to believe that the closer we can bring society to that ideal, the closer that the society can come to knowing both truth and health.

Limfree,educated,liberal --> ∞ Society = truth + health :wink:


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30 Jun 2010, 6:30 pm

The Book of Bokenon I : 5

Quote:
Live by the foma* that makes you brave
and kind and healthy and happy.


*Harmless untruths



leejosepho
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30 Jun 2010, 9:30 pm

visagrunt wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
I can appreciate the thought of a *healthy* society being a focus more grand than the mere pursuit of an accumulation of truth, but I can assure you "a free, educated and liberal society" will never actually know either!


Not to be facetious, but how can you make that assurance? I am not persuaded that a free, educated and liberal society has yet existed from which to draw an empirical observation.


Such an observation has more of a prophetic bent than an empirical one, as such, yet it is nevertheless based more upon some awareness of mankind's overall track record and a bit of personal experience than upon mere speculation. No matter how educated he might be, a liberal mankind would still remain a slave unto itself.


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ruveyn
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01 Jul 2010, 5:03 am

leejosepho wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
I can appreciate the thought of a *healthy* society being a focus more grand than the mere pursuit of an accumulation of truth, but I can assure you "a free, educated and liberal society" will never actually know either!


Not to be facetious, but how can you make that assurance? I am not persuaded that a free, educated and liberal society has yet existed from which to draw an empirical observation.


Such an observation has more of a prophetic bent than an empirical one, as such, yet it is nevertheless based more upon some awareness of mankind's overall track record and a bit of personal experience than upon mere speculation. No matter how educated he might be, a liberal mankind would still remain a slave unto itself.


What does that mean. And if we are not slaves to our selves (which is to say, slaves to our needs and nature) then to whom or what should we be slaves?

ruveyn



leejosepho
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01 Jul 2010, 8:56 am

ruveyn wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
... a liberal mankind would still remain a slave unto itself.


What does that mean. And if we are not slaves to our selves (which is to say, slaves to our needs and nature) then to whom or what should we be slaves?


On the premise we all must serve someone or something ...

The underlying question is related to provision, and mankind cannot provide for itself. And of course, I am not in any way suggesting anyone be or become a slave to anyone or anything. In fact, I believe everyone should be encouraged to freely and willingly serve anyone or anything he or she believes can meet his or her needs and satisfy instincts ... yet the record certainly seems to indicate mankind cannot provide for itself. Therefore I say a "free, educated and liberal society" is self-defeating.


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