Study: Most Americans want wealth distribution similar to...

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Zara
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28 Sep 2010, 9:36 am

This story only shows how out of touch Washington is with people.

Sure, there's a problem and people acknowledge it, but we're not going to do anything about it. :roll:

We don't have to become like Sweden, but can't we start making the changes to rectify the problem? Seems like no one has the balls to do what really needs to be done in Washington.

Besides Sweden is rather cold...

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MotherKnowsBest
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28 Sep 2010, 9:59 am

Zara wrote:

Besides Sweden is rather cold...

Only in the winter. In the summer you get roasted alive. :sunny:

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28 Sep 2010, 10:31 am

I was more intrigued by the disparity of what people thought was the distribution of wealth and what the actual figures are. I think there is a problem there but not one that would be fixed by as extreme of moves as Sweden has...but something that's a step in between our robber baron aristocracy/kloptocracy and their social utopia. There's gotta be something in the middle that doesn't work toward complete enslavement of the lower classes. China shouldn't be our model of what a working class should be...and yet that seems to be what most of the right is working toward.

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Zara
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28 Sep 2010, 11:43 am

skafather84 wrote:

But even the slightest change towards something more equitable is regarded as extreme nowadays.

skafather84
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28 Sep 2010, 11:58 am

Zara wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

But even the slightest change towards something more equitable is regarded as extreme nowadays.

That's a result of the strong hyperbole that comes from the other side. The ones who hold on to most of the wealth leverage the tax system (and thereby, the conversation) to where they get more voices on their side. Really, what'd be more effective would be to create a bracket above $250k. Maybe make the bracket $250k-$1mil and then have a $1mil+ bracket. It fits for inflation and how wealth has been redistributed over the last 30 years to the kleptocracy while inflation has made the lower 80% poorer by dollar value.

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28 Sep 2010, 1:53 pm

number5 wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Horus wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

this working-class person would cast his lot with sweden any day of the week.

I'm not necessarily convinced of that auntblabby. Many working class and "blue collar" people I know are bigger supporters of supply-side economics than Milton Friedman ever was. The fictional Archie Bunker character wasn't too much of an exaggeration when it comes to many of these people.

Just because people may like having a union job doesn't mean they like the unions supporting the democrats' policies. My dad is a truck driver and he is almost as far right as me. Most of the other truck rivers and even dispatchers are very right wing too and would never approve of wealth redistribution.

This is what truly blows my mind about the blue collar folks. Why are they so inclined to consistantly vote against their own best interests? The right-wing politicians have been so successful at selling their agenda to those without significant wealth and power in order to keep the money and power at the top. They like to use scare tactics and catch phrases like "jobs-killer" and "hurts small business" and my personal favorite "trickle down econimics." It's all a bunch of crap and the blue collar folks eat it right up.

Take the current debate over the Bush era tax cuts expiration. The Dems want to continue to cut taxes for all monies made under 250k only. The Repubs want to extend the tax cuts for the rich. Who's really going to pay for this proposed stimulus for the rich? Why on earth would any sensible person believe that a stimulus for the wealthy (who are already doing quite well these days) is the answer to our current economic problems? Because they bought the lies sold to them about "building small business." It's nothing more than big business reaching into your pocket and taking your cash. The lower and middle class will pay for these continued tax cuts to the rich as they always do.

typical conservative response wrote:

But you're advocating "class warfare" and "spreading the wealth", you dirty anti-american socialist traitor! The rich earned their money unlike you, you lazy bum! Cry me a river! Are you looking for a handout?

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28 Sep 2010, 2:51 pm

Why all this stuff about Sweden? If you read the article you will see that what people thought was best was a situation where the 20% at the top earned about 32% of the wealth - and this just happens to be the situation that Sweden is in. Obviously redistribution of wealth would require measures, but doesn't mean the country would end up just like Sweden - or indeed anything like Sweden. It is a distraction from the main point of the article which is wealth distribution and differences between perceived, actual and desired. Comparisons with Sweden are just a journalistic tactic to get people more engaged with the story, and typically what you end up with is people saying 'I don't like X, Y and Z about Sweden therefore I don't want wealth redistribution' (as seems to be happening in this thread).

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28 Sep 2010, 11:28 pm

Horus wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

this working-class person would cast his lot with sweden any day of the week.

hello there Horus

i wasn't speaking of my archie bunkeresque yahoo neighbors out here in lesser hooterville, just me, myself, I. I would love to be a citizen of sweden. even if i can't locate it on a de-named map :oops:

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28 Sep 2010, 11:40 pm

number5 wrote:

again, remember h.l. mencken's trenchant observation that "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american public" - or at least that of the working class who continue to vote against their own best economic self-interest. read the book "what's the matter with kansas" for some enlightenment on this issue. the repubs cynically divide the working class over "god, guns and gays"- i.e., "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." upper-class repubs themselves don't actually believe that anything [speaking of $$$] really trickles down from their heights- that is the last thing they want, for any of their precious duckies to actually help some slob beneath them. nope, the only thing in life that ever trickles down, is tears in the rain.

number5 wrote:

Take the current debate over the Bush era tax cuts expiration. The Dems want to continue to cut taxes for all monies made under 250k only. The Repubs want to extend the tax cuts for the rich. Who's really going to pay for this proposed stimulus for the rich? Why on earth would any sensible person believe that a stimulus for the wealthy (who are already doing quite well these days) is the answer to our current economic problems? Because they bought the lies sold to them about "building small business." It's nothing more than big business reaching into your pocket and taking your cash. The lower and middle class will pay for these continued tax cuts to the rich as they always do.

"let them eat tax cuts!"- where are the damned guillotines when one needs them?

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29 Sep 2010, 12:15 am

Jacoby wrote:

Most Americans probably can't even find Sweden on a map let alone want to live there

Really? What a stunning display of knowledge you present of the American populace. With assumptions like these I'm surprised that PPR isn't back to it's 2007 level of hostility.

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29 Sep 2010, 1:37 am

MotherKnowsBest wrote:

Zara wrote:

Besides Sweden is rather cold...

Only in the winter. In the summer you get roasted alive. :sunny:

Ummm.....you're kidding right?

If not...you must've been born and raised in Anartica or something.

The average high in Stockholm during the hottest month (July) can't be anymore than 75 degrees fahrenheit. If you're "roasting alive" in such temperatures, i'd hate to see how you'd fare in NYC in July let alone a city like Bangkok, Thailand year-round.

Unless there's some microclimate in Sweden outside Stockholm where the average highs in the summer are significantly greater....you must be a polar bear. :santa:

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29 Sep 2010, 1:48 am

auntblabby wrote:

"let them eat tax cuts!"- where are the damned guillotines when one needs them?

The Democrats banned them some years back, something about assault on the government weapons...

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29 Sep 2010, 3:15 am

I believe that large income inequality/poverty are signs of economic inefficiency. However, shifting wealth around is also inefficient (which I'm guessing Sweden does a lot of). If economic policy was more focused on correcting the inefficiencies in the system, poverty would start falling.

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29 Sep 2010, 6:53 am

Cyanide wrote:

You have a point. Removing institutional and political barriers to individual accomplishment would go a long way to "closing the gap". Perfect equality however will never be achieved (thank Goodness!) because people differ in their talents, their drives/ambitions and their energy level.

The idea is to stop preventing people from achieving their personal best because of irrational disincentives and unnecessary political and social barriers.

ruveyn

MotherKnowsBest
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29 Sep 2010, 8:34 am

Horus wrote:

MotherKnowsBest wrote:

Zara wrote:

Besides Sweden is rather cold...

Only in the winter. In the summer you get roasted alive. :sunny:

No I'm not kidding. That's the average temperature in Stockholm, which is usually afew of degrees colder than where I am in the south. However it fluctuates quite a lot and each sommar I've been here there has been a couple of weeks of extremely hot weather. This year in June-July the front garden (in the shade) was 95 degrees fahrenheit and the back garden (in full sun) was approx 118 (my thermometer doesn't go any higher).

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vader/article7449404.ab

It is however like being in the sahara, as soon as the sun goes down it's bloomin freezing again.

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02 Oct 2010, 1:43 am

I've been dirt poor before due to various issues. I was glad there were government programs to assist me, but the only time I harbored negative feelings against the rich was when those people became rich by engaging in harmful, anti-social behavior and got away with it.

Generally speaking though, people who have the aptitude to become self made millionaires or billionaires the moral and ethical way play an important part in a prosperous society, because they have a personality and way of thinking that enables them to "move mountains" so to speak.

These people are among those who brought you the modern world with all of it's amenities.

These people turn great ideas into great realities and create a lot of jobs in the process.

Those working class individuals struggling to make ends meet who become upset at the fact that these people have more money than they do, are generally ignorant to the positive things these people bring society, and generally lack multiple qualities that successful people possess.

It had nothing to do with how hard one works though.

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