Favorite Biblical figures besides Jesus

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A Roman Jew who was previously a pharisee and son of a pharisee.

As far as self-hating goes, I don't think it had anything to do with his being Jewish so much as it is that the Christians are all a self-loathing bunch. Just look at Augustine of Hippo or Ignatius Loyola.

I don't loathe myself. God made me after all, and if He doesn't loathe me, why should I?

After the council of Nicea, Christianity was thoroughly gentilized. The Gentiles took over a religion founded by a Jew. As they say in Hebrew: Ayin chadashot tachat ha'shemesh. There is nothing new under the Sun.

ruveyn

Last edited by ruveyn on 01 Oct 2010, 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Better safe than sorry.

Isn't that the moto of the religious?

Job.

Actually the saying is obviously "There is nothing new under the Son".

How come no one has mentioned Judas?

Judas, is indeed an interesting biblical character to consider, given some "controversy" of his nature and actions.

There are so many good ones, but I've always identified the most with Elihu... though that's probably a little arrogant of me

That is not what it says in the book of ecclisiastes which is where the quote comes from.

ruveyn

God is described as having a body of flesh in the old testament too.

Frankly, I don't think there's a Christian alive who even wants to BE Judas. We strive to stay away from him.

I really like the character of Job. He doesn't waffle or flounder in his faith even when situations look the worst and the most dire, which is kinda odd that I appreciate that given that I don't believe in any of the monotheistic religions out there.

In other words he'd kiss God's ass no matter how nastily God kicks him in the teeth. In the army we called guys like that brown nosers.

"Self-loathing" is an exaggeration, but there does exist vague Biblical support for it.

"Self-denial" is the actual term used. That, and Jesus spoke of hating your family, friends, possessions, and so on. Jesus also spoke of His purpose of not being one of bringing peace, but rather division.

This has to be understood as hyperbole, and you can't take it TOO literally since the primary message of Christ is love. The word used for "hate" is used in such a sense that means the disciple must put all things behind him in order for be a disciple.

Think of it this way: The mainstream Christian view of Mormonism is that Mormons aren't actually truly Christians because of so many radical deviations from Christianity--acceptance of Joseph Smith as a "prophet;" the Book of Mormon, Covenants and Doctrines, the Pearl of Great Price being inspired texts on the same level as the Bible; the appearance of Jesus to Native Americans; secret rites in churches such as sealing marriage and baptism of the dead; and many other differences that essentially make LDS incompatible with other Christian views. Mormons themselves, on the other hand, will consistently assert that they ARE God's chosen children and that it is the rest of the world in need of enlightenment. Many Christians will view a brother or sister's conversion to LDS with utter disgust because it really isn't legit Christianity. Mormons themselves generally hold to a high moral standard and are nice to everyone, which does make the religion attractive to a number of people on the fringe of the mainstream. But I've also been around Mormons who are quite fake, and one in particular I had a strong, almost irresistible urge to slap that smile off her face (I didn't).

Christianity is not really an extension of Gentile-friendly Judaism, but a lot of people see it that way, just like Mormons claim to be the "correct' Christians. So for a Jew to convert to Christianity would be like a Baptist becoming a Mormon: You just don't do it! There'd actually be less grief if the Jew died than converted to Christianity. And most people in general don't wish to alienate their families.

The point that Jesus was trying to make was that a person has to be willing to suffer the loss of his family, perhaps even a spouse along with children, in order to follow Jesus. It's not that Jesus expects you to give up your family, but more like being abandoned by one's family is a natural consequence of becoming a Christian. This is what is meant by "self-denial," division rather than peace, or hating one's family. Life itself becomes secondary to following God's will, which is the meaning of a Christianity hating his life. He who loses his life will gain it, and he who saves his life will lose it.

And that, of course, is one of the most repellent parts of Christian doctrine since the very existence of human life itself depends upon the basics of integration with one's family and care of one's progeny. To put the imaginary fantasy of theological dogma over the basics of living is a sign more of psychosis than anything else.

Repellant if that's all you care to focus on. More often than not, the Bible teaches us to honor our parents, be respectful of authority, to not "stir up" our children "to anger," and so on. The command that husbands love their wives just as Christ loved the church is such that a husband be willing to die if it means saving the life of his wife. Or this one: A man has no greater love than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. Would we not all agree that those kinds of values are more noble than purely self-seeking motives?