Gay marriages and civil partnerships in church

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visagrunt
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16 Feb 2011, 6:27 pm

murphycop wrote:

Visagrunt, there's too many religions within religions.

I don't think any church should be made to change their poilicies cause of pressure from gay rights groups or Elton John. If a certain church does allow gay people to get married, then I guess thats up to them yeah. But again, there's too many religions within religions. I'm sure if there was a God, it'd be pretty simple.

[sarcasm]Well, once you allow people to follow their own consciences you are on the slippery slope towards diversity.

Perhaps it might be best to return to the day when every person in England was compelled, by law, to attend mass, and heretics were burned. Then we would have uniformity and all would be well.[/sarcasm]

For my part, I like the diversity that exists within religious traditions. I think the great strength of the Anglican Communion is that there is room for both the conservatives and the progressives, and individual parishes and dioceses have great capacity to form their own approach within a fairly loose framework of belief.

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16 Feb 2011, 6:57 pm

murphycop wrote:

Should this ever be allowed? Surely not, as quite obviously, Christianity is against homosexuality.

In another thread, we proved that the Bible approves of Lesbianism--just not male homosexuality.

Whether Lesbians should marry each other--well, Paul did say that it was better to marry than to burn.

Marriage was originally about property rights--specifically a man's property rights. If a man raped a girl who was not engaged, he had to pay her father off and marry her--he could never divorce her. Commandments about not commiting adultery with another man's wife, and not even coveting another man's wife (or any of his other possessions) make it clear that marriage is about protecting a man's property rights concerning his wives and concubines.

Perhaps one solution would be to find a man who would be willing to marry a pair of Lesbians--that way, they could stay together, and enjoy the benefits of matrimony. Hopefully the Lesbians would be at least somewhat bisexual.

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16 Feb 2011, 7:06 pm

pandabear wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Should this ever be allowed? Surely not, as quite obviously, Christianity is against homosexuality.

A 'lesbian' isn't going to be "somewhat bisexual".

TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 7:10 pm

No, she isn't. lol Pretty sure that was meant to be a joke, though.

"You can be a lesbian as long as you take a husband and sleep with him."

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raisedbyignorance
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16 Feb 2011, 11:48 pm

murphycop wrote:

I see what you're saying, but maybe its the minority of people wanting to make gay marriage legal who want to impose their view on everyone? I agree, i'm not saying that the goverment should their recognition of relationships on what the church says, i'm just saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married in a church, if the religion of that church is against gay marriage.

My head hurts from the logic behind your statement.

If a gay couple was aware of one certain branch of Christianity strictly being against marrying them in their churches, then that couple wouldn't bother with any of the other churches belonging to that particular brand of Christianity.

Besides people don't just get married in any random church. If they're religious they will usually stick with the church that they belong to or go to on Sundays for their ceremony but considering how most of Christianity feels against gays, I doubt you'll see many of them wanting to get married in a church anyway...unless they really want to make a bold statement about it. Are you worried about gay couples suing if a church doesn't marry them?

murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 8:13 am

visagrunt wrote:

murphycop wrote:

[sarcasm]Well, once you allow people to follow their own consciences you are on the slippery slope towards diversity.

Perhaps it might be best to return to the day when every person in England was compelled, by law, to attend mass, and heretics were burned. Then we would have uniformity and all would be well.[/sarcasm]

For my part, I like the diversity that exists within religious traditions. I think the great strength of the Anglican Communion is that there is room for both the conservatives and the progressives, and individual parishes and dioceses have great capacity to form their own approach within a fairly loose framework of belief.

Well you must enjoy things becoming more complicated. A lot of diversity in Christianity is probably due to science proving it wrong. I think its pretty silly when religious people start making up their own rules.

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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 8:15 am

Macbeth wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.

UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:

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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 8:18 am

raisedbyignorance wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Maybe its the way you were raised?

Yeah, a couple might not, but gay rights groups will try and make sure its possible in every church.

That will happen eventually yeah, i'm not worried about it, its just a pain in the backside.

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visagrunt
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17 Feb 2011, 12:53 pm

murphycop wrote:

Sure, complication is harder to understand than simplicity. But human beings are complicated creatures, and if we have learned anything in human history it is that one size does not fit all.

As for your belief that gay rights groups will try an compel all churches to celebrate same-sex marriages, I see absolutely no evidence for a concerted effort.

Individuals, of course, might try it on for size. Every individual is free to petition the courts for relief from any perceived breach. I could sue you tomorrow for defamation, nuisance and assault--but my suit would fail because I have no evidentiary or legal basis on which to pursue those claims. Similarly, a same-sex couple could attempt to sue a church to compel them to celebrate their marriage, but I see no basis on which such a suit would succeed (at least in democratic jurisdictions with constitutional protection of religious belief.)

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17 Feb 2011, 1:23 pm

murphycop wrote:

Should this ever be allowed? Surely not, as quite obviously, Christianity is against homosexuality. Whether thats right or not is a different issue. But in no way should the church change its policies to accommodate for gays, thats not equality. I'm not religious myself, but if people of the same sex want to get married, there are other countries they can do this, or be happy with a civil partnership. I'm sure they'll be able to get married in a registry office soon anyway.

Churches are generally regarded as private institutions and with the 1st amendment, the state can't force a church to perform a gay marriage.

State's courts are a different matter though and can do legal marriages for gays if the people allow such.

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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 3:18 pm

visagrunt wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Duh. But uneeded complications aren't easy to understand.

You should probably look a little harder then.

Gay people can play the descrimination card, it'll happen soon enough, you'll see.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 4:49 pm

murphycop wrote:

Gay people can play the descrimination card, it'll happen soon enough, you'll see.

What the hell for? I don't see interracial couples suing churches and winning. Why would this be any different?

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hightechdan
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17 Feb 2011, 5:41 pm

There have already been plenty of discrimination suits. I don't see any specifically for refusing to perform the ceremony, but with the justification given for imposing fines and confiscating property one could reasonably suspect that it will happen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340

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17 Feb 2011, 5:49 pm

hightechdan wrote:

The only ones I've seen be successful deal with properties owned by churches that are used as public property.

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Macbeth
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17 Feb 2011, 5:55 pm

murphycop wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

murphycop wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.

UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:

Great "my picture didn't work" icon. Try again. THEY'RE STILL COMING TO BUM YOU!! ! RUN AWAY!! ! PHEAR THEM!!

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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 6:03 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

hightechdan wrote:

The only ones I've seen be successful deal with properties owned by churches that are used as public property.

It'll happen.

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