Where do you fall on the political spectrum?

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NeantHumain
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13 Mar 2011, 6:39 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

@ NeantHumain

In all honesty Fascism has more in common with the far left than the far right.

1. Government escentially controlled the large industries (the fact they didn't control the small shops is irrelevant)

2. Repressed Free Speech

3. Indoctrination of the Youth

4. State Controlled Media (news (propaganda in this case), movies, etc.)

See, you think left; I think right. I associate 2-4 with the far right and also the authoritarian left. None of those are aspects of the liberal left. Really, authoritarianism/totalitarianism is separable from the left/right divide.

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13 Mar 2011, 6:40 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Except for the first point I can say it's apply rather well to the US right.

Here is where you are wrong.

2. The left has tried to repress free speech through the fairness doctine, "net neutrality", etc. The Right is more of the mindset if I don't want to watch it I'm just going to change the channel and not watch it.

Wanting to defund NPR is not censorship, it is called not wanting my tax money to be spent on left wing propaganda. I have no problems with MSNBC, CNN, etc. being left wing cept I just won't watch them and I will continually point out their bias issue. CNN and MSNBC do not take taxpayer money so they're free to say what they want.

3. See singing praise songs to Barack Obama. I don't recall children singing praise songs to George W. Bush.

4. See NPR and PBS which are taxpayer funded. Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, etc. do not receive taxpayer money.

Kraichgauer
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13 Mar 2011, 6:40 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Inuyasha
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13 Mar 2011, 6:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

Vigilans
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13 Mar 2011, 6:55 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

Not having religious beliefs as a core character trait does not imply indoctrination, in fact the opposite

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13 Mar 2011, 7:00 pm

Social libearian, fiscal moderate.

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13 Mar 2011, 7:01 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

91 wrote:

The Nazi party certainly had interventionist economic policies. They also supported big business. The strict right/left divide, if it ever works, breaks down close to the fringes.

That's exactly what corporatism is; the Government working with big businesses to either rip people off or eliminate competition.

@ Vigilans: Corporatism is the result of the Government intervening with the economy on a large scale. It is the opposite of laissez faire. And yeah Fascism did emphasize family values and were pretty much anti-Communist, but religion doesn't really pertain to the ideology since it ranges from embracing religion to rejecting it. The reason Fascism is usually supported by the far right is mainly because of Social Darwinism. It tends to favour class unity yet most regimes of Fascism are strangely corporatist. Fascism is more nationalistic than anything else, and it doesn't revolve around corporations. Its hierarchy pertains to biology rather than class.

I'd say Fascism is a radical centrist ideology. Even that is a rough generalization given how f***ing weird Fascism is. Whether people classify it as far left or far right depends on what they consider to carry the most weight. Those who label it far left think that the Government's size as well as its collectivism carry the most weight, whereas those who label it far right think the rejection of egalitarianism as well as its militarism carry the most weight.

I don't know about calling it centrist either, as though it bridges many gaps in theory, in practice it is right wing and authoritarian. But overall I think of what is known as 'Fascism' as a term for dishonest 'meta-politics' that are really just taking advantage of people's hopes and prejudices to maintain strict power. A fundamental difference between the extreme left analog, Communism, is that in Communism, de jure the People make The State. While in a Fascist state, the State makes the People, and in general the belief of men being unequal is often at the core of Fascist values

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13 Mar 2011, 7:02 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

And when in this thread did I bring up religion?
And what in particular is leftist about PBS? It has great educational programing for all ages.
And you had mentioned in your previous post that you don't recall school children singing about George W. Bush. No, they didn't. But neither did a major news network convince parents that they shouldn't send their kids to school because the president was going to address them. This is exactly what Fox did, along with Limbaugh and company when Obama was addressing school children. No other president has been insulted this way by any particular political movement in this country - not bush, not anyone. If that isn't indoctrination, I don't know what is.
And I seriously doubt that that Obama song was issued from the White House; I'm sure it was an idea of the local school system. I thought conservatives wanted local schools to take the initiative.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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13 Mar 2011, 7:03 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

Not having religious beliefs as a core character trait does not imply indoctrination, in fact the opposite

Actually, it can and is something known as Socialism and Communism.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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13 Mar 2011, 7:03 pm

I suppose I would be best described as a moderate Libertarian. I'm not ultra conservative, but I'm close.

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13 Mar 2011, 7:08 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I suppose I would be best described as a moderate Libertarian. I'm not ultra conservative, but I'm close.

Really?
From your posts, I'd have taken you for pretty liberal. I guess I haven't had a chance to read everything you've posted.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Last edited by Kraichgauer on 13 Mar 2011, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Mar 2011, 7:08 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

Not having religious beliefs as a core character trait does not imply indoctrination, in fact the opposite

Actually, it can and is something known as Socialism and Communism.

So then...
Communism espouses Atheism. Atheists exist. Therefore all Atheists are Communists?

Kraichgauer
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13 Mar 2011, 7:10 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

And the far right has never been guilty of 2,3, and 4?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Religion =/= indoctrination except in rare situations.

You want to argue religion is indoctrination, then I will turn that around and say atheism is indoctrination.

Not having religious beliefs as a core character trait does not imply indoctrination, in fact the opposite

Actually, it can and is something known as Socialism and Communism.

So then...
Communism espouses Atheism. Atheists exist. Therefore all Atheists are Communists?

For years and years, that had been the popular notion in this country.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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13 Mar 2011, 7:12 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

I'd say Fascism is a radical centrist ideology.

The word is syncretism- combining extremist elements from both sides of the political spectrum. However, I would regard straight fascism (a la Mussolini or Franco) as being primarily right-wing. Nazism and Stalinism were more syncretic in borrowing from both sides- Nazism in adopting some purportedly "socialist" policies and Stalinism in embracing nationalism.

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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13 Mar 2011, 7:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I suppose I would be best described as a moderate Libertarian. I'm not ultra conservative, but I'm close.

Really?
From your posts, I'd have taken you for pretty liberal. I guess I haven't had a chance to read everything you've posted.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm what many would call socially liberal, but the thing is liberal means to want more government involvement and I believe the government should be as small as possible for the size of the country/state it governs.

There are many things the government has it's hands in that I believe is unconstitutional.

Plus, I'm fairly fiscally conservative. The government should only intervene when there's a human rights violation. Period.

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13 Mar 2011, 7:15 pm

@Vigilins

Communism certainly did enforce atheism as a part of the official ideology. That is not to say that all atheists are communist or even that all Communists are necessarily atheists.

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