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phil777
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03 Apr 2011, 9:50 pm

Ahh, some fellow anthropologists (student, for my part here <.<). My take about "race", even though it's been previously mentionned, is that besides our minor differences, we are all part of the same biological race. The minor changes between ethnic groups are actually pretty negligible, when you consider that there is MORE genetic diversity within a group than between them. =/

And for the record, i know a "few" of those skeletal differences, they really don't amount to much. (nasal "spike" unique to europeans... ) But they are helpful when trying to identify a victim, in such cases as forensics.

The take about dogs is pretty much that they use much of their gene pool working on getting those "desirable" traits that humans have conditionned into them (regarding "pure" breeds). Cross-breeds only work half as hard for those traits ( at least it would make sense), which gives them some leftover genetic versatility to overcome and adapt to whatever may come to them, such as disease.



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03 Apr 2011, 9:52 pm

what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


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JakobVirgil
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03 Apr 2011, 10:00 pm

TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


thats what my nine year old says. it bothered her that the african american kids at school said they were black.
(when they are obviously brown) she was eight at the time. (maybe aspie or just raised wrong).


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TheKing
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03 Apr 2011, 10:02 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


thats what my nine year old says. it bothered her that the african american kids at school said they were black.
(when they are obviously brown) she was eight at the time. (maybe aspie or just raised wrong).


are you insinuating Bill Nye is an aspie? or ur daughter? lol


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JakobVirgil
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03 Apr 2011, 10:15 pm

TheKing wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


thats what my nine year old says. it bothered her that the african american kids at school said they were black.
(when they are obviously brown) she was eight at the time. (maybe aspie or just raised wrong).


are you insinuating Bill Nye is an aspie? or ur daughter? lol


my daughter for choosing literalism.
she also says that she is mexican cuz she was born in Arizona and does not accept the mexican-american war as valid.
a little bit of a radical view for a nine year old. :lol:


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Bethie
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03 Apr 2011, 10:41 pm

Races do not exist objectively.

There is simply no one group of humans that hasn't extensively bred with other groups in over 150,000 years.


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Kraichgauer
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04 Apr 2011, 2:17 am

It's been found that there is greater genetic difference between different groups of chimps than there is among the various human races.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



simon_says
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04 Apr 2011, 2:34 am

I think there is a certain knee jerk revulsion to the idea of there being any differences between the population groups that we vaguely describe as races (or within races). But nothing in nature is egalitarian. It just doesnt care about our values. It's not fair that some groups have genetic advantages but that's just how it is. The full extent and nature of those advantages is unknown today but I don't think wishing them away is a viable strategy. Better to place them in context.



Omerik
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04 Apr 2011, 4:22 am

Why should this be so important?
Even if you say that there are biological differences which you can prove - so let's say black people do better in sports. I don't rule that out. But if you compete with a black friend, you wouldn't say "well, it isn't fair, you're black" if he wins, right?
Basically people who are devout to sports and lead a professional life are the ones who succeed. Perhaps statistically there are more black people with genetic athletic abilities (it is often said, and I guess it might be true, but I honestly don't care). Still, it's not like athleticism is a trait that all black people are born with, and others can't achieve.

These supposed racial-traits are not like subspecies as in the non-human-animal kingdom, where you can say that individuals of some subspecies usually have great hearing, and others have great vision, because they live slightly different. Basically, human beings today are still evolving, in my opinion, but not as different species. If anything, we used to evolve differently, but less so today. For example, the different skin colours and "tanning ability" that different people have. In the past you could say that people in the north are whiter, but today with immigration and all, it's not really like that.

It does matter in terms of medicine, as some diseases, etc., can affect different groups of people, but in our everyday life, society and culture play a much bigger role than biology.



simon_says
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04 Apr 2011, 4:43 am

I never said the differences were significant. But they are measurable in some ways, mostly on a statistical level. That's why it's important to place these differences in context. We arent talking laser vision and third arms.

You can train your whole life and a trained Tibetan will beat you to the top of Mount Everest every time. Is that important? No. But it's a difference. West African speed advantages might be established genetically one day. But we are talking 10/ths of a second ahead of the best European times. Not bionic man stuff.



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04 Apr 2011, 5:33 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
TheKing wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


thats what my nine year old says. it bothered her that the african american kids at school said they were black.
(when they are obviously brown) she was eight at the time. (maybe aspie or just raised wrong).


are you insinuating Bill Nye is an aspie? or ur daughter? lol


my daughter for choosing literalism.
she also says that she is mexican cuz she was born in Arizona and does not accept the mexican-american war as valid.
a little bit of a radical view for a nine year old. :lol:

Then she needs to read up on the 1847 treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the 1853 Gadsen purchase.


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Telekon
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04 Apr 2011, 5:35 am

ruveyn wrote:
The various "races" are neither species nor sub-species of homo sapien sapien. Opposite gender specimens from any two different so-called races can interbreed and produce viable and fertile offspring. Humans of the different "races" interbreed without artificial means. Which gets us to the One Race, which is to say our species, Homo Sapien Sapien. That is the only biologically defined race from the standpoint of reproduction which is all that matters. The differences that occur within the human breed are primarily cultural differences. Different languages, different customs, different technologies, different political and economic systems. Not a bit of this is biologically determined.

ruveyn


Sub-species who are members of the same species can interbreed. Everything you wrote is consistent with the perceived races representing various sub-species. Physical anthropologists who accept a taxonomy of human races class them as sub-species of homo sapiens sapiens, never as separate species. You're focusing only on reproductive compatibility and ignoring all phenotypical differences. The partitioning is based on phenotype and geographic ancestry not on the ability to reproduce. Furthermore, if there are no pure races, then there couldn't be one race. There are either multiple races (otherwise, how would you get impure races?) or there is one race.



zer0netgain
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04 Apr 2011, 8:36 am

Frankly, I'm surprised people need to research this to know it's true.

When it comes to "race" it's not just a gene controlling skin color. Breeding habits also factor in.

There are some very intelligent and successful African-Americans. What percent of the total population of African-Americans do they represent?

If two stupid people breed, what are the odds of producing a smart kid?

Of course, this applies more to a question of the culture. A community that strives for excellence and where the women have standards of who they will take as a mate leads to children more disposed to be successful and intelligent. A community that tolerates indiscriminate breeding for the sake of pleasure likely produces more children of questionable potential.

Over time, cultural standards wind up determining the overall potential of any given member of a racial group.

Dumb white people = high chance of dumb white children.

Smart white people = high chance of smart white children.



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04 Apr 2011, 9:50 am

TheKing wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown


thats what my nine year old says. it bothered her that the african american kids at school said they were black.
(when they are obviously brown) she was eight at the time. (maybe aspie or just raised wrong).


are you insinuating Bill Nye is an aspie? or ur daughter? lol


When I was 8 or 9 riding a bus with my mom I noticed that too one day.
A so called 'black" person's hand was lying across their black pants - the hand and the pants were not even close to the same color. Likewise my "white" skin was not the same color as my white tee shirt and that 'Blacks' and 'whites' on the bus were in fact different shades of the same brown.



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marshall
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04 Apr 2011, 3:40 pm

TheKing wrote:
what I learned at school(from the Bill Nye the Science Guy videos) is that all humans are the same exact color(excluding albinos as they lack pigmentation) we are ALL brown but it varies between light and dark brown

If you exclude parts of my neck, face, and forearms that receive sunlight, my skin color is closer to light-pink than light-brown. I see the point that calling different types of skin pigmentation "white", "black", "brown", "olive", "red", or "yellow" is bit ridiculous though. That kind of naming scheme definitely implies a certain degree of exaggeration of the differences. All healthy people have skin that is basically some combination of pink, tan, and brown, coming from the color of cutaneous blood capillaries and two main types of pigmentation.