The belief in prayer, but not in God/afterlife

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Would you settle for athiests who verbally attack anybody with absolutely any belief whatsoever, insisting it's a lack of reason no matter what they other person tells them, takes anything they say and twists it around to arrive at a erroneous conclusion, then smugly smiles because athiests are "so much more intelligent" when in fact neither party can really know for sure since it's all speculation anyway? I don't see anything intelligent about that.

Nah, but that sure is logical within that kind of mind!

Nicely written.

No. Because these are opinions and judgments, not hostile physical acts that can kill and maim.

Opinions are like rectums. We all have at least one.

ruveyn

My point was only that athiests can be morons as well. I definitely wouldn't say all athiests -or even most- are like this. It's not actually even whether they're religious or irreligious. It's almost a personality type.

It's the close minded people on either side that are so set in their opinion they attack the other party on sight. Or, like when some people paraphrase what I said and scoff like I'm the dumbass, when they didn't get a single thing I said right. I try to dumb it down, and they still twist what I say into something it's not.

Either A: They're just trying to push peoples' buttons by misunderstanding them or B: They just see what they want in the other person's argument, and I can't see someone who debates like that as rational or intelligent.

I think in at least some cases, people are operating in some kind of fear:

1) Fear they might lose the comfort of their current beliefs;
2) Fear of their long-held beliefs not ultimately proving true.

So, I believe some people simply argue out of ill-perceived (ego-, fear-, pride- and/or ignorance-driven) self-preservation.

I dunno about a "lack of reason", but it's most certainly FAULTY reasoning, from an empiricist POV.

Of course neither party can "know for sure"- which is why ATHEISTS DON'T MAKE ANY CLAIMS.

If by "attack the other party" you mean "scoff and do the intellectual equivalent of 'ROFL' at people who build their lives on Bronze-Age fairy tales with about as much supportive evidence as Humpty Dumpty".

Maybe were it not so "dumbed down" and ambiguous, people wouldn't misinterpret what you say?

Or C (and this is truly shocking): They genuinely misunderstood you.

Atheists don't make claims - including that one? But seriously folks, and passing lightly over claims I have heard from atheists -

Let us think a minute. Do I burn people at the stake in a building I am blowing up BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN GOD? Or do I do it because I believe them to be evil people who threaten me, my beliefs, my way of life?

When I have pointed out the treatment of people of faith in ountries inimical to religion, I have been tolkd, OH, that is not beause of their atheism, their non belief, but because religionists are a danger to the state and right thinking.

To me, seems to me if I kill you for disagreeing with me [mentioning God's will] that is little different from you killing me for disagreeing with you [mentioning the will of the people].

A;lso, while I have not been physically harmed, as soon as people found out I had turned to a people of faith I got rejected and persecuted.

But that is just anecdotal evidence.

So then, one group believes conversion or transformation is the answer and the other believes derision or elimination is the answer ...

... and we now all "taste/test to sample/see" while waiting to see how all of this really turns out.

No, there is no claim that is inherently Atheistic-
no more than non-feminists or non-capitalists make claims.
A non-belief is not a belief.

lolwut

If you subscribe to an Abrahamic faith, you likely do it because your god is monstrously genocidal, and you believe him worthy of emulating. You believe people who are different are "evil people who threaten you, your beliefs, and your way of life" because your "holy" book says PRECISELY THOSE THINGS.

I highly doubt that. You were likely informed (correctly) that as a lack of belief can have no dogmas, it's impossible to assert anyone has ever been killed in the name of Atheism, and that "religionists" have long-been considered by tyrants to be threatening because their allegiance lies at least partially somewhere else. Moreover, someone who, for instance, outlaws public religious practice and commits religious genocide for that very reason needn't BE an atheist....merely a tyrant.

Say what now?

Now maybe you have a tiny tiny droplet to compare against how Atheists feel every day, living in a world where the vast majority of people are theists who not only are incessantly-slaughtering ONE ANOTHER, but through hijacking democratic processes convert entire governments to deliberately-reckless foreign policies dedicated to fulfillment of Biblical and Koranic prophecy, subjugating women, murdering gays, and destroying via "divine right" the same Earth they consider formed via a divine hand. You got "rejected and persecuted", you say? Persecution is Ben M of my high school class taking a brick to the face through the windshield of his car one morning for being gay. I can find exactly where in the Bible (for instance) it commands the death of gays- where, exactly is this atheist ethics handbook which atheists live by?

Yeah. You're right.
The millions if not billions killed since the beginning of history in religious wars, religious persecution, religious schisms, the consequences of religious-based legislation and government, etc?

Not so much.

Welcome back.

I am a devote atheist and I would argue that prayer does have some power.

Back in college I work on some research with one of my professors who was studying factors that influenced survival rates amongst men with aids.
Basically looking at the paired results of test for viral lode in the bloodstream with each subjects rsults on the MMPI (minisota? multiphase personality inventory)

one of the consistent coralations for good health was religiosity. Ie the people who prayed more were in better health.

I would argue that much of this is that you are taking some of the stress off of yourself by putting it on a higher power. In the case of illness this can reduce the sense of helplessness. In achieving your goals it can let you put it out of your hands so that you can focus on actually doing what needs to be done.

to move it out of the realm of Christianity I can recall a wiccan spell for gaining employment, it involved a brief candle ceremony each of 7 days during which you went out and applied for 7 jobs each day. same idea

Would not surrendering your future to fate, as opposed to god, likewise take the stress of one's self?

I think it the behavior that leads to the goal, not the end that is the goal that produces the positive effect.

In the Wiccan example the ceremonial behavior can lead to a more postive attitude in the words in an application and behavior in an interview. When people think something helps, it often does.

In surrendering to fate, is there any behavior that you would change; I would think it as of acceptance of life. I don't see it as much different than when someone says the old saying Lord help me to change the things I can and accept those things I can't change. Similar to cognitive behavior therapy in both cases.

That imagery of a kind Lord to assist is effective in helping some, no less than it would be to imagine a loved one helping you in an endeavor. The brain knows no different as long as a person believes what they are telling themselves.

Interestingly, in research on Placebos some get a measurable effect when they are told they are receiving a placebo, but not all people get the same effect.

I guess, the question becomes is it easier to imagine doing it alone or with the help of someone else? I think it depends on the individual.

The power of prayer is just based on how well you feel after it. Much like homeopathy or some dubious treatment, it never really worked except afterwards when you spent money on it and feel guilty or some person tells you how much better you are.

Ok, sure, you might get mad at me, but I ask you: Are you really going to get mad at me because her prayers weren't answered? I mean, I am willing to bet Austria has a lot of Christians in it, I am sure somewhere along the line she stopped praying and just accepted it...that is why God does not exist; if he does exist he is a cowardly monster who only performs miracles for the easy and sensational ones.

The scientific research on prayer and the placebo effect is relatively new, but there is measurable evidence that suggest they both effect the reward system of the brain.

This particular topic is about the benefit of prayer regardless of the question of the Existence of God or the Afterlife. But, I don't think one can separate the two easily.

It doesn't do any of us any good to blame life for being unfair, but if we can find any small behavior that makes it easier, life is much too short not to use it.

The final factor is whatever life is, whatever the cause of is, whether or not it is fair or not, we are all captive in it as long as we live.

I can't get mad at you for your views; it is somewhat useful to get mad at something that a person does not believe that exists. Love it or hate it, it is what it is.

And finally in the life of Anne Frank, regardless of her ultimate fate, one cannot say that prayer was of no comfort to her in those days. It is likely that it was comfort to many in that day. The only thing we impact is the life we live, often we don't get a choice in the gifts that we receive.