Idea about Mexico

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Yes because thinking intelligent skilled people who where educated here for the overt purpose of supplying their nation with educated people should go back to their nation and help said nation shows fear. (This is by the way sarcasm, and I'm not racist either, I suggest you keep the ad hominids to ones that show at least some objective evidence.)



I was born here so I'm native, that's not to say you must be native to be a citizen however, that is simply not the case, and it does not bother me that non-natives have citizenship.



I want illegal immigrants and people who where only overtly here for an education to take back to their countries to go home, that is not fearful.



Yes I worry about whether or not Americans will have work in their own country.



I said nothing that would imply they weren't citizens, and I am not foreign to this land I was born here, I cannot say the same for you however.

I would however say that after a certain point of familiarity with American culture and assuming official citizenship that you cannot really call your friends foreign by any objective measure, I would say such a stance is offensive to their desire and efforts to be in America, especially when those efforts have made them American by the law.

Also I am curious how suggesting educating more foreign peoples here and making sure we sending them back to their after they receive that education is fearful. If the overt purpose of such education is to provide more knowledge to foreign lands then we subvert our intentions by stealing them, if it isn't then we are simply worsening their home nations condition by taking intelligent people out of an environment that could be potentially improved by their presence.

You put too much stock in your blood then. Also any sense of owner ship is arbitrary, that is the American Indian tribes have no truly legitimate claims to this land and neither do we. We just happen to be the ones living here and have no good reason to leave.

If you truly feel like an invader however you should leave.

I don't feel like an invader, any more than i think of undocumented immigrants as invaders.

Mexicans in specific are more native to this land than i am. Especially right where I happen to be living.

The problems we have with "immigrants" are the exact same problems you have in any culture that has a labor caste with lesser rights than full citizens.

And it's especially hypocritical to look down on them for being immigrants when all of us (save for those with tribal lineage) are descended from immigrants.

I'm sure i'm descended from someone who was spat on when they first came to the new world. You probably are too.

My ancestors came here legally. Have spent their time serving this country since it was a country. I am an American.
If you want illegals to come here illegally, then they shouldn't STEAL people's SSN's and f**k up their lives, taxes, and SSI benefits.. They shouldn't draw social services.. and they shouldn't send their children to our schools... If they want to be legal, functioning members of this society, do it legitimately. Get a f*****g green card.

You can't be native as an individual to a place you haven't had any contact with before. You also can't be native to a location as a group when you haven't been in said location for around 300 years.

Also you cannot be native by degrees, or at least such things have no common understanding, it is either you are native to an environment or you or not.

That is, if two groups are native one is not more native than the other even if they have been present for longer.



No it isn't illegal immigrants are not citizens so while they could in theory have the same benefits as us we have no obligation to provide such benefits, they are in the strictest sense criminals so I'm not sure why you would try and argue they should be entitled to the same benefits as a citizen. Legal immigrants however do get similar(if not the same exact) benefits as Americans.



I've not looked down on anyone, not for their status as an immigrant anyways.



relevance? I'm not proposing to spit on anyone I'm proposing educating them and sending them back to their country.

My ancestors came here legally too, but like i said, since the dawn of europeans in the new world, there have always been some who say that nobody else should have the good fortune to come here that the people who already came here already have.

It's the same anywhere, under any circumstance. And it's always BS.

We've had, for the past several decades, an immigration policy that makes it very difficult to come here legally - and it's clear that if it wasn't designed to encourage illegal immigration, it's certainly maintained to encourage illegal immigration.

My friend Raju came to the united states more than 20 years ago to get a better education than he could get in India and immediately started his application for citizenship. It took him 20 years to achieve it.

You clearly have no idea how hard it is to get a green card right now.

It's very clear that business interests - large and small - prefer to have an available workforce that will work for less than minimum wage and never complain about working conditions because one phone call would send them back to where they came from. You and i both benefit from this arrangement in the form of the lower consumer costs we enjoy.

I agree that they shouldn't steel social security numbers - we should just issue them a number to use.

I think that since they pay out payroll deductions, pay property taxes directly or indirectly through their landlord, and pay the same sales taxes as anyone else on the things they purchase, they are as entitled as you or i to social services and public education.

Even if they weren't entitled, you and i as legal residents benefit if their diseases are cured or prevented because it makes it less likely that we will get sick. And who wants a bunch of ignorant children running around all day causing trouble? Maybe we can turn them into productive members of society. Especially the ones who, since they were born here, are natural born citizens. If anything we should invest more in educating our resident aliens.

How about this: American citizens cross into Mexico's borders, take up any work they can find, persistently speak English and don't give a flying fart about what other people are saying, make insults about customers and coworkers and then when caught tell them that they weren't being talked to, send any money earned back into the States and don't bother with taxes unless you have to by legal necessity. Maybe make demonstrations about rights for American citizens in Mexico and offer votes to anyone who says they'll give rights to foreigners. How's that sound?

I don't really mind Mexicans or other people from Latin America, but really this isn't an issue about whether immigrants are people or not. It is about whether a nation should be considered a general benefactor for all mankind just for the sake of its being there. Mexico is also there, as is Puerto Rico, Cuba, etc, so they should also be held to the same standards on issues of immigration as people would have the United States held.

We do that right now. They welcome it, because it ultimately creates jobs. Gringos spending money, etc.

Millions of us or just a few? How about American citizens immigrate en masse and actually become pestiferous, no longer creating jobs with our lovely gringo dinero but instead taking away from them instead?

You're making an irrational argument. The number is in the thousands because the jobs they have that we want are things like "Factory manager".

Start a business in mexico and suddenly their border guard gets a lot friendlier to you, government officials let you get away with whatever you want, etc. You don't even have to offer a living wage. Or a wage that will pay for a cardboard box and a stack of tortillas.

You make the same complaints about mexicans who are here illegally as IT workers make about indians who are here legally. The problem isn't legal or illegal or how many there are, the problem is that they are an underclass with lower wages and fewer rights.

You've been had. This nation is a successful experiment in egalitarianism. We attract the most ambitious from all over the world with the promise that they will have almost the same opportunity for success as those born into money. That nobody is going to be held down strictly because of who they are. We obviously don't fully deliver on this promise if the immigrant is brown or believes in the wrong sort of god, but the promise is there, and we all benefit if it is kept.

It's unamerican to say "I enjoy these priviliges because i'm an american, but you can't just come here and try to be an american". We became a powerful nation by allowing people to succeed even if they aren't our relatives, and it's counter-productive to try to put the brakes on that.

Obviously we should continue to attract the best, brightest, most ambitious, and hardest working. The only mistakes we're making there are that we're being too stingy with legal status, and too stingy with education. At the very least, we'd all benefit if our governments operated free english-as-second-language and probably also spanish-as-second-language courses, not to mention mandarin, etc.

Have you ever tried to move to a foreign country? Do you know that to move to Canada, you have to take a test that scores you based on criminal history, education, career, family medical history, and whether or not you have children or pets? How about Australia? Ever tried to move there? It's not much different. Even married to a citizen it can take you YEARS of hoop jumping and paperwork and interviews with investigators, to prove that you aren't just marrying to stay in the country. I have a friend who has been going through this process in Australia for 7 years even though she's married to an Australian and has a child there. She came home to the US for a visit and had a hell of a time getting back.... Don't try to say that the US is so much harsher than other countries.. There are others with very similar policies.

If you want to be a US citizen, there are guidelines and rules, hoops to jump.. If you really want it, it should be worth it. But, you don't have to come to the US and apply for citizenship if you don't want. Get a green card. Show respect for the country that you seem to want to be a part of by respecting it's laws. If you can't respect the laws, you shouldn't be here. I don't expect that I can just apply for a job in a foreign country and expect to just show up and work. When I was in Canada for a year, I was strictly forbidden to work or go to school (of course I was on a visitors or vacation type visa)... Sure, I found a loophole.. every three months I recrossed the border, BUT I respected the laws and I didn't work and didn't try to go to school.

I don't take much consideration for those who can't come here legally. I would think it would be a huge injustice to those who do jump through the hoops and red tape to come here legally.

As for the comment about lower wages... If they were working legally, above the table, these crappy employers who currently take advantage of their illegal status, wouldn't be able to do it anymore. My brother in law works in construction and the company he works for is in serious trouble because they refuse to hire illegals. Other companies who do are able to bid less for the job because they pay their employees less.. Of course, it takes them longer to finish a job because any time a white van pulls up to the job site, 90% of the workers run and hide.

It's ridiculous. And when they're caught and sent back across the border, how often do they just come right back? Seriously. You know the movie where they put the collars on people that can result in their head being blown off? I don't think I'd have a huge problem with them putting those on illegals when they send them home. Apply properly and we'll take it off... or stay in your country... Break the rules and we're done with you..

Extreme, yeah. But it might be something that ends this continuous cycle of BS.

Currently, yes. Not so much historically. Prior to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, it was much easier to immigrate. Unless your skin was the wrong color.



This is such a common logical fallacy that it barely deserves a response. Just because some people were punished by a bad policy doesn't mean that the policy is justified by their struggle.

We owe those people an apology right now. Not wanting to have to apologize to them after remedying the situation for those who come after them is a pretty shameful excuse.



See above wrt H1B workers. The hindi contractors where i work - who live here in the US, pay US taxes, and have the same cost of living as i do - often make a lot less than i do.

Perfectly legal and above-board.



Do i have to point out to you that this sounds a little bit racist?

Call it racist if you want.... I think it's incidental... The most obvious problem that we have with illegal immigrants happens to come from Mexico or through Mexico... Not a lot of Canadians trying to come here illegally.

Who is "we"? I don't care about managerial work, as I think that for the most part managers are lazy bums and I have little to no respect for most of them. I would like to work as an assembly line crew, or a chef, or an order picker, or anything really. I don't care for having a leadership role, I would just like to work for a living.

A friend of mine is part owner of a small glass factory in Mexico (he is an engineer - he designed and helped build the factory). He tells me that manufacturing in mexico is going so strong that in 10 or 20 years the mexican army will be patrolling the border to keep gringos out.

And most of those factories are owned and operated by people who aren't mexican.

Mexico does have harsher immigration laws than we do, but they are mostly pointed at - surprise surprise - their southern border.

Minimum wage in Mexico is about $5/day. How badly do you want that job?

Even 5 pesos a day would be better than nothing. Why, is your friend offering to let me work?