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Is there still suffering after you die?

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rabidmonkey4262
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23 May 2011, 7:23 am

rocknrollslc wrote:
rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
rocknrollslc wrote:
rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
Jutty wrote:
are you alive? if you answer yes, then you have a soul.


There are alot of animals that are alive and experience emotions, but not one of them has ever shown any evidence of having a soul. It's not even possible to prove that you have a soul, so you can't make any affirmations.

All we know for sure is that every single emotion that we experience is the result of neurotransmitters and hormones. The soul is an anachronism that was only relevant when we didn't have scientific knowledge to explain emotion.


i can prove that i have a soul. ... ..... .. i have a soul. you're sure you didn't sell yours.......?? :lol:
8)



yeah that's not funny. I don't believe in metaphysical and religious BS. Emotions are products of the brain and endocrine system, not the soul as uneducated people often say.


wow thanks for the info. i'm well aware of the scientific answer for emotions, believe it or not. :thumright: our definitions of the word "prove" are obviously very different


As in my definition of "prove" actually means provide solid visible evidence and use logic. If you wanna discuss magic, don't waste our time. Save that spiritual BS for the religion section.


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rabidmonkey4262
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23 May 2011, 7:25 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
The idea of the human "soul" should be a distant memory carried over from a time when we new little of what it meant to be "alive". We now know what is required to maintain homeostasis and to me that suggests that we should have matured past this notion of surviving ones death. The idea that after our death we will experience life in another human form, or by sitting up on high, is just escapism from the ultimate reality of death. The only form our body takes after the electrical signals have stopped, is one of a rotting corpse giving bacteria and bugs a banquet. As for the definition of 'Prove' I would have thought that some form of empiricism is necessary.


Someone here is being rational. yay!


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23 May 2011, 10:57 am

No because you're dead.


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rocknrollslc
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23 May 2011, 4:21 pm

rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
rocknrollslc wrote:
rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
rocknrollslc wrote:
rabidmonkey4262 wrote:
Jutty wrote:
are you alive? if you answer yes, then you have a soul.


There are alot of animals that are alive and experience emotions, but not one of them has ever shown any evidence of having a soul. It's not even possible to prove that you have a soul, so you can't make any affirmations.

All we know for sure is that every single emotion that we experience is the result of neurotransmitters and hormones. The soul is an anachronism that was only relevant when we didn't have scientific knowledge to explain emotion.


i can prove that i have a soul. ... ..... .. i have a soul. you're sure you didn't sell yours.......?? :lol:
8)



yeah that's not funny. I don't believe in metaphysical and religious BS. Emotions are products of the brain and endocrine system, not the soul as uneducated people often say.


wow thanks for the info. i'm well aware of the scientific answer for emotions, believe it or not. :thumright: our definitions of the word "prove" are obviously very different


As in my definition of "prove" actually means provide solid visible evidence and use logic. If you wanna discuss magic, don't waste our time. Save that spiritual BS for the religion section.



sheesh...funny how you're the one who brought up the topic of souls to begin with, and also funny how you're still talking about it. if YOU want to make ultimatums about what other people can or cannot "prove", or whatever, then expect the conversation to bend out of your favor now and again. i am in no way trying to sway off topic, as you're the one who was talking so much about souls to begin with. im sorry, but i will stand up for what i believe in, actually, regardless of the section. so deal.



DentArthurDent
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23 May 2011, 5:37 pm

This thread should really be moved over to PPR, however, as to the definition of 'prove' to me there is little doubt that to prove something you must have solid empirical evidence, it is not the same as what 'truth' as truth can be subjective, and ones firmly held belief is most certainly NOT proof that it is factual.


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rabidmonkey4262
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23 May 2011, 11:05 pm

rocknrollslc wrote:
sheesh...funny how you're the one who brought up the topic of souls to begin with, and also funny how you're still talking about it. if YOU want to make ultimatums about what other people can or cannot "prove", or whatever, then expect the conversation to bend out of your favor now and again. i am in no way trying to sway off topic, as you're the one who was talking so much about souls to begin with. im sorry, but i will stand up for what i believe in, actually, regardless of the section. so deal.


sheesh a little defensive are we? If you read the thread, there are several people that brought up the topic of a soul. I would never come up with that metaphysical garbage unless I wanted to prove someone wrong.

Don't be upset because you can't prove the existence of a soul, just admit that you can't. It's okay, no one blames you.


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rocknrollslc
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23 May 2011, 11:56 pm

take a hike. i dont discount your's or anyone else's ideas about the way of things, especially because i do understand what you're saying; or most of it anyway.. and i especially don't refer to your thoughts as BS or garbage over and over. jeeez. maybe i should though..... real classy act you got there.

..sheesh.....



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24 May 2011, 12:49 am

Dear Moderator/Manager

Please move this thread to PPR.

ruveyn



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24 May 2011, 3:40 am

(Thread moved from science and technology to PPR)

Moved due to the lack of scientific content and drift towards religion and philosophy.


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24 May 2011, 5:43 am

I would argue that if you are in pain, that in itself defines you as not quite dead.


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24 May 2011, 5:52 am

This seems to be one area where religion and science agree. Maybe for different reasons, but they seem to reach the same conclusions.

The answer is no. No suffering after death.


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24 May 2011, 8:57 am

Moog wrote:
I don't honestly know.


Exactly.

one can take off authority A or authority B, or make an uninformed guess.

Myself, I have in both atheist and theist days operated off a modified version of Pascal's wager:

If I don't KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt that being dead will be at least no worse than what I have, better put down that razor.



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24 May 2011, 7:33 pm

rasol wrote:
Although I really do not want to die (at least not yet), I have to admit that perhaps the only comfort I find in death is that I will not suffer pain and emotional distress anymore and that no one can hurt or see me anymore after my body is basically reduced to fundamental particles.

So do you think there is still pain and suffering after death? Do you think you can still deeply long for something you have lost even after you died?


Death has only really been defined as the biological machine known as a body stops functioning. What of the electrons that were entangled with your atoms, especially your mind? Everything that lives emits a signal that never gets erased. Electrons are forever essentially, forever defined by several trillion years at any rate. There is some research being done by people like Stuart Hammeroff, and Sir Roger Penrose on the nature of consciousness. If they are correct, and consciousness is quantum in nature, it will change forever the way science views it.

So, to answer your question... Maybe.



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24 May 2011, 8:16 pm

Given what we know about experience, no, not at all. Experience requires a working nervous system. Dead people don't have those basically as a matter of definition.



Philologos
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25 May 2011, 9:11 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Given what we know about experience, no, not at all. Experience requires a working nervous system. Dead people don't have those basically as a matter of definition.


Where was it demonstrated that items with no working nervous system [I assume we are both using more or less standard terminology] experience nothing?

Admittedly very few objects lacking operative nervous systems have testified to experiencing anything. But then we have no direct evidence that hagfish experience. They can be shown to react is about it. But certain plants react with no nervous system operative or otherwise. Can we show that hagfish DO experience and drosera spp do NOT?



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25 May 2011, 9:18 am

Philologos wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Given what we know about experience, no, not at all. Experience requires a working nervous system. Dead people don't have those basically as a matter of definition.


Where was it demonstrated that items with no working nervous system [I assume we are both using more or less standard terminology] experience nothing?

Admittedly very few objects lacking operative nervous systems have testified to experiencing anything. But then we have no direct evidence that hagfish experience. They can be shown to react is about it. But certain plants react with no nervous system operative or otherwise. Can we show that hagfish DO experience and drosera spp do NOT?


How terribly true. Every time I peel potato I shudder to comprehend the horrors it is undergoing and chopping an onion brings tears to my eyes.