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Health Professionals talking to patients about religion.

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Moog
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24 May 2011, 7:33 am

Henbane wrote:
My particular concern is with health professionals dealing with people with mental health problems. There is a power imbalance when a person sees a GP, psychiatric nurse, social worker or psychiatrist. The person is very vulnerable, possibly suggestible. They are likely to be in a state of high anxiety. Maybe they are trying to work out how to tell the GP that they hear voices, or are thinking about suicide, or are summoning up the courage to ask to be referred for an assessment for Asperger's. They have their own concerns and issues to deal with, without having to be burdened with the issues of the health professional.


Power imbalances have nothing to do with religion. I'm sure there are GPs who wittingly or unwittingly abuse their position in a secular way.

I'm all for the eradication of misdiagnoses and abuses of power whether religious, spiritual, medical, or otherwise.

The issue here isn't really about religion at all. Someone did something inappropriate and potentially damaging. Very human.


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Last edited by Moog on 24 May 2011, 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

YippySkippy
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24 May 2011, 7:57 am

Just a note:

UK - Doctor is essentially a government employee. Services paid for by tax dollars.
US - Doctor is private. Services paid for by you (or your insurance if you're lucky).

I think it makes a difference to the discussion whether the doc is on the public payroll.
Also, doesn't England have a national religion? Wouldn't an NHS doctor then be required to represent THAT religion, if he/she was going to represent any religion at all?



leejosepho
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24 May 2011, 8:28 am

YippySkippy wrote:
... the doctor should not choose which role is appropriate.
The patient chooses the medical role by visiting the doctor in a medical setting.
The doctor can suggest adding the religious role, and it is up to the patient to decide whether this is acceptable to him/her.


Moog wrote:
If I was a healer, I would bring 'spiritual' matters to the table if it seemed appropriate and useful.

I would not force it on someone, just like I would not give them an invasive surgery they did not want.

Exactly, and the problem there lies (or can be seen) within this:

Any mention of spirituality and/or of spiritual matters, at least in any pure form, goes right on out the window any and every time money is also changing hands.

Note: The above does not say a doctor should never suggest or recommend spiritual pursuits such as could be made within some type of religious or spiritual setting or dynamic.

Rather, s/he should just never make mention of any personal or specific "religious belief" or actual experience of his or her own.


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Last edited by leejosepho on 24 May 2011, 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oodain
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24 May 2011, 8:38 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Just a note:

UK - Doctor is essentially a government employee. Services paid for by tax dollars.
US - Doctor is private. Services paid for by you (or your insurance if you're lucky).

I think it makes a difference to the discussion whether the doc is on the public payroll.
Also, doesn't England have a national religion? Wouldn't an NHS doctor then be required to represent THAT religion, if he/she was going to represent any religion at all?


we have a state religion in denmark, yet i cant think of any doctor here that would speak of religion if the patient didnt move to that topic first.


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cdfox7
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24 May 2011, 9:07 am

Henbane wrote:
There are different types of healer though. If I went to see a Reiki master or a Chinese herbalist, then I think I would be more open to matters of the spirit. Plus I would have researched that type of therapy before going there, and would be paying privately for it. I would have chosen an 'alternative' holistic form of medicine. I would be paying for a service, and the power balance would be more equal.


QFT << this Reiki master agrees with that :wink:



leejosepho
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24 May 2011, 9:33 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Just a note:

UK - Doctor is essentially a government employee. Services paid for by tax dollars.
US - Doctor is private. Services paid for by you (or your insurance if you're lucky).

I think it makes a difference to the discussion whether the doc is on the public payroll.

Theoretically, yes, but reality goes beyond that since the doctor is essentially "controlled" by the licensing and insurance agencies making it possible for him or her to even be in practice at all.


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cdfox7
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24 May 2011, 11:15 am

YippySkippy wrote:
Just a note:

UK - Doctor is essentially a government employee. Services paid for by tax dollars.
US - Doctor is private. Services paid for by you (or your insurance if you're lucky).

I think it makes a difference to the discussion whether the doc is on the public payroll.
Also, doesn't England have a national religion? Wouldn't an NHS doctor then be required to represent THAT religion, if he/she was going to represent any religion at all?


yes we have a national state religion. no case in point my own GP is of the Islamic faith.
Yes theres been times we talked about God & am ok with that. Anyway Allah is the Arabic word for God & Islam lays no exclusive use to the name



Master_Pedant
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24 May 2011, 5:00 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Just a note:

UK - Doctor is essentially a government employee. Services paid for by tax dollars.
US - Doctor is private. Services paid for by you (or your insurance if you're lucky).

I think it makes a difference to the discussion whether the doc is on the public payroll.
Also, doesn't England have a national religion? Wouldn't an NHS doctor then be required to represent THAT religion, if he/she was going to represent any religion at all?


England has a State Church (The Church of England - THE original Anglican Church). It doesn't really result in much when it comes to employment discrimination in the government (with the exception of the Royal Family - nobody except an Anglican can be the Monarch of England).

cdfox7 wrote:
Yes theres been times we talked about God & am ok with that. Anyway Allah is the Arabic word for God & Islam lays no exclusive use to the name


So, if I get a job as a government employee, either in England or in Canada, would you find it acceptable if I spoke of how improbable God's existence is? Would this be fitting and professional conduct for me?


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leejosepho
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24 May 2011, 5:12 pm

MotherKnowsBest wrote:
To be fair to the doctor, all the doctors at that surgery are Christians. It is considered a Christian practice. They say it on all their adverts and literature for new patients. Patients know exactly what they are signing up for. They don't have to register with this doctor/surgery, they are quite free to go to another one which isn't staffed by Christians.

That sounds respectable on the surface, but that does not override the error of people demanding/accepting payment/s for prescriptions of spiritual solutions ... and especially when/while dealing with addicts and/or alcoholics who then typically wrongly believe they have thus "paid the required price" for healing. And of course, yes, even secular treatment centers commit the same grievous error.


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24 May 2011, 5:41 pm

leejosepho wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
To be fair to the doctor, all the doctors at that surgery are Christians. It is considered a Christian practice. They say it on all their adverts and literature for new patients. Patients know exactly what they are signing up for. They don't have to register with this doctor/surgery, they are quite free to go to another one which isn't staffed by Christians.

That sounds respectable on the surface, but that does not override the error of people demanding/accepting payment/s for prescriptions of spiritual solutions ... and especially when/while dealing with addicts and/or alcoholics who then typically wrongly believe they have thus "paid the required price" for healing. And of course, yes, even secular treatment centers commit the same grievous error.


Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Do you think there was some sort of financial transaction between the doctor and his patient?



Tequila
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24 May 2011, 5:44 pm

Healthcare professionals should be secular - it's best to keep religion out of professional medicine, though it other non health-care services should be offered to those that want them for emotional comfort, say.



leejosepho
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24 May 2011, 5:50 pm

MotherKnowsBest wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
To be fair to the doctor, all the doctors at that surgery are Christians. It is considered a Christian practice. They say it on all their adverts and literature for new patients. Patients know exactly what they are signing up for. They don't have to register with this doctor/surgery, they are quite free to go to another one which isn't staffed by Christians.

That sounds respectable on the surface, but that does not override the error of people demanding/accepting payment/s for prescriptions of spiritual solutions ... and especially when/while dealing with addicts and/or alcoholics who then typically wrongly believe they have thus "paid the required price" for healing. And of course, yes, even secular treatment centers commit the same grievous error.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Do you think there was some sort of financial transaction between the doctor and his patient?

The patient/client might not be handing monies directly to the doctor to immediately pocket, but yes, of course ... unless, of course, all services there are completely free-of-cost.

Many years ago, my grandmother was a missionary-nurse in a certain hospital where nobody ever had to pay even a single dime, and I would say nobody could truly fault her for freely "preaching" or suggesting anything of her own choosing (as long as done within applicable guidelines there and respectable medical practice).


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25 May 2011, 3:25 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Yes theres been times we talked about God & am ok with that. Anyway Allah is the Arabic word for God & Islam lays no exclusive use to the name


So, if I get a job as a government employee, either in England or in Canada, would you find it acceptable if I spoke of how improbable God's existence is? Would this be fitting and professional conduct for me?


whats your hidden agenda here by asking that question? I have to laugh at your hypocrisy for raising questions about integrity, when your pass behaviour lacks integrity. Its the pot calling the kettle black just by asking that question, focus on your own conduct first!