Same sex marriage

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1. The government imagines itself to have a monopoly on coitus, which it taxes once through the issuance of a marriage license.

2. Divorces make money for lawyers.

if men and women aren't "fixed".

Gay Marriage isn't about gaining the ability love or to get acceptance.

You can already do that without marriage.

you mean:

"If being gay is not a choice (fixed), same sex marriages should be legal", but yeah, that leads to asking the question: "What IF it is a choice?"

I heard a lot of stuff about gay marriage on the "anti-bullying" for gay people day. Now people are talking about gay marriage, and I'd like to state my opinion on that:

On Gaybullying:

*People shouldn’t get bullied. I can understand that, bullying is ALWAYS wrong. I heard about a Father beating his gay son with a bible, I am against that. However, having a differing opinion is NOT wrong, it is fine as long as you aren't downright mean. I know that I shouldn’t bully homosexuals, I would never try to do that, but I will not weaken my opinion, and will always stand by my church and anyone else who knows that the definition of a family is a marriage between a man and a woman. It is not called bible-thumping, it is called tried, tested, and true.
Also:
*I totally understand that bullying is wrong. It is never right to induce pain on any other human for any purpose aside from self-defense. I would never try to. While there is a specific empathy that is required in humans for this nation to survive, I also want to point something else out. There is a difference between discriminating and rewarding....see gay marriage.

On The LDS reactions to gay people:

*Our church as a whole does not try to bully Homosexuals. Individual agents may, and I am sorry that they give the impression that we hate homosexuals. Let me be clear: we love the people, they are our brother's and sister's.......but, we can disapprove of their actions. No matter what anybody says being gay is a choice, and acting on it is a choice too. Oh, and nobody gets discommunicated from our church for "being gay", or thinking gay thoughts.......they are when they start acting on those thoughts. It is the same sin as adultery, and it is wrong to act on it. It is the choice of the church leaders to which if a member stays a member IF thy committed or engaged in any sexual relations, including gay ones.

On being gay:

*Oh, and the gay thing, just like any other type of thought can be overcome. The studies are biased. Have you ever had thoughts? Anyone who has OCD, like for instance me, knows that ANY type of thought can get stuck in your head and be obsessed over....but any thought can be overcome with better thoughts.
Also

*We are born to reproduce with others of the opposite sex, yet some get the thought to be gay (sometimes it is the human nature to think about things like that, sometimes it is the media or relations or politics....outside influences that make that happen). So anyone can get over it, they just have to get rid of those thoughts. *I believe that I am straight also I think straight therefore I am straight, Anyone who wants to be straight can think straight, just like anyone who thinks gay can become gay. *Thoughts become words, words become actions, actions become character, charter becomes destiny. (Oh and tv and bad influences, and the devil gives people those thoughts).

*Not discriminated, but discouraged. They are harming our future generations. The children won't be raised in a home with a mother and a father (as stated previously), and there will be less people made as more people fall into sin.

* Secondly...YES THEY CAN CHOOSE. When they first started out, they talked about skin color and how they can;t choose that. And I quote "I didn't wake-up one day wanted to be discriminated." Nobody wants to be made-fun of. However, that doesn't mean that it isn't a choice. Just as there are scientists who say being homosexual is a genetic thing, there is also a case to make for environmental and just plain old thoughts. Honestly, more people than would like to admit have had a gay thought or two in their lifetime. It is part of natural human curiosity. The difference between a normal person and a gay person is that they choose to focus on those thoughts. There is a quote that I heard when I was in elementary school "thoughts become words, words become actions, actions become character, character becomes destiny"....and guess what? It wasn't from the bible. It was from common sense. When people obsess over ANY thought, it will become a part of them. Think about food too much, you'll eat too much and become fat, think about suicide too much, you'll be depressed, you'll kill yourself, think about being gay too much, you'll declare yourself gay and have sex with the same sex. It is all a series of actions and consequences. While I do sympathize with the outcasts and being left out of things, not having a social life, not fitting in. I do not sympathize with the gay communities thoughts. It is a choice they can make to think about it. I have OCD, that means I sometimes obsess over thoughts more than the average person, I have thought about a wide variety of my decisions. I remember when the lady on the show asked "Was there a point in your life when you woke up and decided to be straight?" Why in fact, there was, just like there was a point where I decided to be vegetarian, to be a runner, to be mormon, to be ... There are so many choices and so many thoughts that we have, and this is just a fixation on a specific type of thoughts: gay ones. So while I think that it would be near impossible to never ever have one, I still KNOW that you can decide what you think....even if you have a mental problem

On gay marriage:

* Giving homosexuals the right to marriage is a reward. They get tax breaks, and rights just like a true couple. That is not right. Again, discouraged, not discriminated. That is my first point.

Also:

*Marriage is about procreation, social fulfillment, and romance. With a man and a woman, they fulfill all 3 roles, with parents that can't have kids, they fill 2 (and are allowed to have relations because they are married) roles, and can adopt to fill the third one. Gay people cannot procreate for a reason. The man and woman who can't have kids, they have a medical reason, the gay people are just gay. They can choose if they are gay. It is a choice to act. Every action you take and make is a choice

*There is some tie between religion and government. However, should we get rid of it all? Why should we allow there to be more gay people? Because the purpose for sex is for procreation. I said it. The world is SO wicked right now. Sex should not be tossed around, but it is....everywhere we look. So, if we are going to go into the gay debate, lets go to the core of what it really is about. It is about sex. Everyone has differing opinions on this, but there are laws there to enforce it. Seeing as there are laws, can you understand that it is a powerful thing? The power to create another human being....would you agree that it is one of the strongest weapons we have, to create life...living, breathing, thinking, loving, life? If you don't, your eyes are blinded. Sex has misguided the world, but has also created it. If we continue to loosen an weaken the laws regarding it, it is basically saying that we should get rid of it. Committing sexual acts with gay people is in the same category with pedophiles. It is misusing the power to create life. Even if you think that there is no god, even if you think that religion has it's wrong, can you see that we have the power to create a life within a human. Humans are one of the most fascinating and complicated and amazing creatures...we have the sole power to make it. Science has tried to replicate it, but honestly, nothing can ever mimic the true creation of a person. Furthermore, it is made enjoyable to us, because of the way our bodies were created. However, it is messed up now. Many people don't understand these fundamental truths....and that is why religion is trying to do (I say truing because some churches are corrupt, but a majority of them have a good intent). It is all about good intent too. If you are having sex with one of the same sex, you can't create a child. You are just gratifying each other, selfish. Especially when you are physically able to be with one of the opposite sex and create a child and make a loving family that will continue that tradition. I know that there are people that don't have the chance (socially, financially, or medically....being that they can;t have a baby). but it is all about the intent. The intent of the gay people is just to gratify each other with their sex. I mean, they can adopt a child, but if we encourage that, then there will be less couples having babies. I see this as a problem. I mean, do you see that people= power. Obviously there can be overcrowding, but I assure you that is not the case. Also, there are mathematicians and scientists, geologists, and so many other intelligent people who have worked together to find that there is way more than enough livable places on the earth. So it is not the case of living spaces. It is the case of being selfish. While it is not just gays, most people can see it most blatantly in gays and pedophiles, and etc. While in reality, it is anyone who has sex outside of holy matrimony to gratify their needs. That is why we don't want gay people to be able to have holy matrimony, it makes it unholy. It is a selfish act, and even if you do raise the children lovingly, you are teaching them to be predominately gay...that it is okay to think that way. I think that is wrong, and should be discouraged. Yes, hurting people will and will always be wrong, but discouragement IS the way to go. I know this in my heart to be true).

The emotion is my disgust for such low-bred white trash, and most people who are against gay marriage are also homophobes on some level.

I can see how there can be exceptions, but the same people who keep shooting down gay marriage are also shooting down bills aimed at trying to control bullying or to add gay people to already existing laws protecting racial minorities and the disabled.

So the simple fact of the matter is that I see opposition to same-sex marriage as an assault on my rights that deserves to be addressed with whatever force is necessary to suppress it. It is not up for discussion. It is not something I intend to compromise on. I will crush and destroy any conversation on it in which someone is suggesting that I should live under one law while someone else lives under another, period, and I have proven this.

It's not something that I am going to be nice about. If you think you've seen me being mean, you haven't seen me after I've been provoked on this subject.

Well stand by your church as much as you want, but don't expect homosexuals to be willing to change their ways just becaue your religion says they should. It is most definatly bible thumping when you use your religion to try and get someone to change the way they are. Homosexuality does not hurt anyone other then maybe the homosexuals that have to deal with harrasment for it. So on those ground there is nothing wrong with it no matter what your church says.

I know that there is genuine hatred amongst a good many people who oppose gay marriage. But - like you are acknowledging - hatred does not animate everyone who opposes gay marriage, like myself. I have had rich and rewarding friendships with the great many gays and lesbians who God has brought into my life (I believe it was divine because my life has never been the same since) and have flirted with my own non-rigid heterosexuality so I could care less about who you love.

I actually do believe in the male-female ideal as a cultural bias instead of male-female / male-male / female female, but simply opposing gay marriage gets you called a bigot, zealot, and homophobe. You can't tell me that emotions and hatred of the assumed bigot is not what animates people to call others a homophobe.

What if you - as I do - oppose brother-sister love, do I call you a syblingphobe? What if there are three loving males in the relationship? It is okay for you to call me someone opposed to gay marriage a homophobe, but won't tolerate being labeled a polygamyphobe? We seemed to be allowed our bigotries so long as we are both bigoted in the same direction. People who throw around the term homophobe should at least be intellectually honest and consistent and drop all bias's unless it is between two consenting adults.

Well maybe the issue is no one ever seems to have a good reason why gay marrige should not be allowed, religious reasons do not cut it.

I will stand by my church. We are just trying to get them to understand out opinion and beliefs of it all. And is there anything wron with Bible-thumping then. It's such a strong buzzword, but really I am just basing my ideas of a book that is thousands of years old that contain wise ideas that some of our nations roots were based off. Sorry if I am not all new-agey and think everything should be constantly changing. That's why they call us conservative. It does hurt other people, and if you actually read what I said, you would see why, There is something wrong with the idea.

Read my last paragraph....it explains without (or mostly without) religious reasons!

The world is SO wicked right now. Sex should not be tossed around, but it is....everywhere we look. So, if we are going to go into the gay debate, lets go to the core of what it really is about. It is about sex. Everyone has differing opinions on this, but there are laws there to enforce it. Seeing as there are laws, can you understand that it is a powerful thing? The power to create another human being....would you agree that it is one of the strongest weapons we have, to create life...living, breathing, thinking, loving, life? If you don't, your eyes are blinded. Sex has misguided the world, but has also created it. If we continue to loosen an weaken the laws regarding it, it is basically saying that we should get rid of it. Committing sexual acts with gay people is in the same category with pedophiles. It is misusing the power to create life. Even if you think that there is no god, even if you think that religion has it's wrong, can you see that we have the power to create a life within a human. Humans are one of the most fascinating and complicated and amazing creatures...we have the sole power to make it. Science has tried to replicate it, but honestly, nothing can ever mimic the true creation of a person. Furthermore, it is made enjoyable to us, because of the way our bodies were created. However, it is messed up now. Many people don't understand these fundamental truths....and that is why religion is trying to do (I say truing because some churches are corrupt, but a majority of them have a good intent). It is all about good intent too. If you are having sex with one of the same sex, you can't create a child. You are just gratifying each other, selfish. Especially when you are physically able to be with one of the opposite sex and create a child and make a loving family that will continue that tradition. I know that there are people that don't have the chance (socially, financially, or medically....being that they can;t have a baby). but it is all about the intent. The intent of the gay people is just to gratify each other with their sex. I mean, they can adopt a child, but if we encourage that, then there will be less couples having babies. I see this as a problem. I mean, do you see that people= power. Obviously there can be overcrowding, but I assure you that is not the case. Also, there are mathematicians and scientists, geologists, and so many other intelligent people who have worked together to find that there is way more than enough livable places on the earth. So it is not the case of living spaces. It is the case of being selfish. While it is not just gays, most people can see it most blatantly in gays and pedophiles.

well, I'd say that gay marriage proponents wouldn't really care about wether gays are fixed or not, but rather, the only criteria being, consent.

The gay marriage issue is aimed towards equal rights, so that is actually about.

Yes, but not being allowed to get the same legal benefits that heterosexuals have, is the focus here, the "you don't need to get married to love" positon is just bunk that avoids the actual issue gay marriage proponents are aimed at.

I mean, they can adopt a child, but if we encourage that, then there will be less couples having babies. I see this as a problem. I mean, do you see that people= power.

Did you know in nature animals experiance sexual plesure, its not all about reproduction....I mean if that is what sex is about for you great but don't expect everyone to follow your beliefs and do not exepect people to be ok with laws being made for religious reasons. And to be honest I had to stop at homosexuality is in the same catagory as pedophilia........sorry I have freinds who are homosexual and they are not comparable to pedophiles. so if you have a valid point please summerize because I do not want to know how disgusting homosexuality is to you.

And guess what not everyone wants to have a child, so just quit with that....

And maybe they don't really want to know what your religion says about them, there are pleanty of beliefs/religions that do not require a strict adherance to a bunch of ridiculous rules that deny nature. And nothing wrong with taking some things from an ancient book but take it all with a grain of salt. I mean I hate to say it but a book written thousand of years ago is not really relevent to politics today now is it. And how does homosexuality or gay marrige hurt anyone? If i must read the paragraph I will but perhaps you could sumerize.

Indeed, people = power, which is why religions want their followers to beget as many new followers as possible.

Your argument is tied intimately to religion.

People also equal power in a nation, it is tied to religion, but I want to show that it is tied to other things also.

Good for them, but I doubt there are any gay ones.
I went on to other points too...people=power and if we stop making people then we lose the power
yes, but it is selfish to want sex without having the consequences...



And maybe I don't want to know about their problems about gay marriage. It does not deny nature. Nature denies it. Take it with a grain of salt!! !! ! Ah! Take it with your heart, because they know what they are talking about. Take all this modern stuff with a grain of salt because it is all brought about by iniquity.

(Oh, and within a normal marriage, it is ok to "enjoy" sex with one partner that they love, but the problem is...the gays feel guilty for not being in marriage and have sex: so they want the marriage thing. However, it is not right for them even if they are married because they can NEVER have children naturallly and thus are skewing the ultimate purpose of sex)