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Unmuzzle Christian Women

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ruveyn
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10 Jul 2011, 6:07 pm

Omerik wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Paul is trying to use examples that will resonate with a culture where the norm is male hair short female haire long. If we had an epistle aimed at a town where men wore long hair and women shaved their heads - yes, there are such - it would say the opposite..

Wasn't he a Jew who spoke to people of different cultures than his?


Yes and out of both sides of his mouth.

ruveyn



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10 Jul 2011, 6:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Omerik wrote:
Philologos wrote:
Paul is trying to use examples that will resonate with a culture where the norm is male hair short female haire long. If we had an epistle aimed at a town where men wore long hair and women shaved their heads - yes, there are such - it would say the opposite..

Wasn't he a Jew who spoke to people of different cultures than his?


Yes and out of both sides of his mouth.

ruveyn


A little extreme - but he does say the all things to all men bit, so I won't untie the bag.

It's okay - Paul for a Socializer Organizer is a pretty good specimen, but I don't really find him likable.



ruveyn
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10 Jul 2011, 6:17 pm

Philologos wrote:

It's okay - Paul for a Socializer Organizer is a pretty good specimen, but I don't really find him likable.


He was dreadful and his monkey-shines led to the gentilizing of Christianity which started out as a break-away Jewish splinter group.

ruveyn



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10 Jul 2011, 8:12 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Philologos wrote:

It's okay - Paul for a Socializer Organizer is a pretty good specimen, but I don't really find him likable.


He was dreadful and his monkey-shines led to the gentilizing of Christianity which started out as a break-away Jewish splinter group.

ruveyn


Sort of parallel to my feelings on Chomsky. I will not throw stones in the house.



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10 Jul 2011, 10:12 pm

Cash__ wrote:

Paul also says it is a disgrace for men to have long hair. Should I run around my church with a hair cutting kit?


Jesus is often pictured as having long brown hair and a beard, possibly in accordance with some presumed Nazirite vow or other.

John the Baptist is similarly depicted as having had the long Nazirite hair and beard.

The Nazirite vows must have fallen into general disuse among Christians by Paul's time.

Paul does seem a bit stuck up, to insist on Christian men keeping their hair short. Still, that passage made it into the Bible, became a part of Christian cannon, and therefore cannot be ignored. It can be disobeyed, just not ignored.



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11 Jul 2011, 8:31 am

I think it should be noted that not all Christian denominations view the Bible as the "inspired Word of God".
There are some who feel it is a book written by normal, flawed people who were products of their age and culture. Those Christians tend to focus on instructions coming from Jesus, not his disciples (again with the understanding that what was written about Jesus had also passed through the filter of human writers).



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11 Jul 2011, 8:35 am

YippySkippy wrote:
I think it should be noted that not all Christian denominations view the Bible as the "inspired Word of God".
There are some who feel it is a book written by normal, flawed people who were products of their age and culture. Those Christians tend to focus on instructions coming from Jesus, not his disciples (again with the understanding that what was written about Jesus had also passed through the filter of human writers).


Many of the Gospels were written by the very flawed Paul of Tarsus. If you ever shook hands with this man, you are well advised to count your fingers afterward.

ruveyn



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11 Jul 2011, 8:51 am

pandabear wrote:
Paul does seem a bit stuck up, to insist on Christian men keeping their hair short. Still, that passage made it into the Bible, became a part of Christian cannon, and therefore cannot be ignored. It can be disobeyed, just not ignored.


Nobody is ignoring it, Ochi Chornya. Some fail to understand what it is about - obviously. Paul - Mr All Things to all Men - is not laying down rules for The Church as to costume, but trying - clearly failing, and likely lots of the Corinthians did not get it - to explain a principle.

You MUST know the story of Epaminondas. How could you not? It is basic to the training of the wise.

For those who may NOT knosw the story, here:

http://www.rickwalton.com/folktale/bryant18.htm

The story of Epaminondas is an important reminder of what happens when Churchgoers - and critics of Christianity - make up rules on the basis of the words, not the meaning [see St Jerome on the subject with reference to translation which is of course a special case of interpretation]. As Paul tells us, "God ... also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

One does so wish that you and the Bible believing pseudo-literalists would read that literally.



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11 Jul 2011, 9:30 am

Philologos wrote:
As Paul tells us, "God ... also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

One does so wish that you and the Bible believing pseudo-literalists would read that literally.


For someone who was of the opinion that "the letter killeth", Paul sure wrote a lot of letters, many of which were quite long.



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11 Jul 2011, 9:41 am

pandabear wrote:
Philologos wrote:
As Paul tells us, "God ... also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

One does so wish that you and the Bible believing pseudo-literalists would read that literally.


For someone who was of the opinion that "the letter killeth", Paul sure wrote a lot of letters, many of which were quite long.


Man, man, man - I know that you know you are just making a dumb funny for yuck yuck, I do that kind joke all the time, but there are some people here whose level of sophistication is not goinfg to let them get it. Be kind to them.

Folks, what the panda would like you to know to savor his joke is that, although English follows Latin in using the same word for "written message" as for "alphabetic symbol", in Hebrew and Greek, and Aramaic and Arabic and German and Russian - probably in Coptic and Armenian, though I have not checked - they are handled by totally different words.

It is the literal interpretation which is deadly, Paul says and I say, not the message.

It is almost like "ear" = body part and "ear of corn", two different words though they sound the same. Purists will note the "almost" and not make me expand and expound.



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11 Jul 2011, 9:52 am

His written messages did contain a lot of alphabetic symbols.



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11 Jul 2011, 10:00 am

pandabear wrote:
His written messages did contain a lot of alphabetic symbols.

And the printed epistyles a lot of alphanumerics. So?

Are you THAT into McLuhan? I always saw him as at best ho hum.



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11 Jul 2011, 4:22 pm

Mrs. Bachmann proclaims herself to be obedient to her husband

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... oblem.html

(just watch the video in there--gad, what a nutjob).

I do wish that she would read and obey the part about women keeping silent, and then clam up. She is far too clamorous.



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11 Jul 2011, 4:27 pm

And, you know what?

http://www.urbanchristiannews.com/ucn/2 ... ey-do.html

Almost one-third of Americans actually do take the Bible literally.



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11 Jul 2011, 7:23 pm

pandabear wrote:
And, you know what?

http://www.urbanchristiannews.com/ucn/2 ... ey-do.html

Almost one-third of Americans actually do take the Bible literally.


Please read more carefully. Three out of ten - I will let you call that a third, my sister is the family mathematician, and we can offset it against the pi gibe a while back - OF THOSE POLLED - note that one might question the degree to which the sample is truly representative - SAY they take the Bible literally.

In fact, they do not even say that - when you go to the Gallup site following the link you provide, you see the statement three of ten assented to is that the Bible "is to be taken literally" - not that they DO take it literally.

But in any case, as I keep pointing out, whatever standard version of the Bible you use, nobody CAN consistently take it literally. There is too much variation and even with the multiplication of points of the "Great White Throne Judgement" type you cannot evade either selection or non-literal interpretation.

This is what I mean by flippancy. You KNOW that.



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11 Jul 2011, 9:53 pm

So....two-thirds of Americans don't take the Bible literally.