Evolution vs Creationism, Why are we having this silly debat
iamnotaparakeet
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Well, given that they were both sent out, the command, "be fruitful, multiply, fill the Earth, and subdue it" was first given to them and God had been merciful to both of them and not carried out execution for disobedience about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but only exile from the garden with the tree of life in it in Eden, it might have been a fairly safe guess to Adam that he and Eve were going to remain alive to be able to fulfill the other command. Given that he did assume Chavah was to be the mother of every human being who had a mother, it would be fairly safe to assume that he wasn't considering the possibility of God creating another woman.
iamnotaparakeet
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I disagree and consider evolutionism to be the elaborate fantasy, or at most, in the words of Karl Popper prior to trolling, a metaphysical research program.
ProfessorP
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Well, given that they were both sent out, the command, "be fruitful, multiply, fill the Earth, and subdue it" was first given to them and God had been merciful to both of them and not carried out execution for disobedience about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but only exile from the garden with the tree of life in it in Eden, it might have been a fairly safe guess to Adam that he and Eve were going to remain alive to be able to fulfill the other command. Given that he did assume Chavah was to be the mother of every human being who had a mother, it would be fairly safe to assume that he wasn't considering the possibility of God creating another woman.
I have found that people are often lead astray when they try to analyze God and why He does things the way He does. My pet cats certainly cannot analyze me, but God is many more steps higher than me, than I am higher than my cats. God is not limited by human reasoning, and He certainly could have been merciful without needing Adam and Eve to propagate mankind.
Even, however, if what you say would have been a reasonable set of assumptions for Adam to have made under the scenario in which he was the first man, it does not imply that he was the first man. My reading is still that there is nothing in the Bible which implies that Adam was first. That Adam was first might be a reasonable inference, but it is not an implication.
iamnotaparakeet
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Well, given that they were both sent out, the command, "be fruitful, multiply, fill the Earth, and subdue it" was first given to them and God had been merciful to both of them and not carried out execution for disobedience about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but only exile from the garden with the tree of life in it in Eden, it might have been a fairly safe guess to Adam that he and Eve were going to remain alive to be able to fulfill the other command. Given that he did assume Chavah was to be the mother of every human being who had a mother, it would be fairly safe to assume that he wasn't considering the possibility of God creating another woman.
I have found that people are often lead astray when they try to analyze God and why He does things the way He does. My pet cats certainly cannot analyze me, but God is many more steps higher than me, than I am higher than my cats. God is not limited by human reasoning, and He certainly could have been merciful without needing Adam and Eve to propagate mankind.
Even, however, if what you say would have been a reasonable set of assumption for Adam to have made under the scenario in which he was the first man, it does not imply that he was the first man. My reading is still that there is nothing in the Bible which implies that Adam was first. That Adam was first might be a reasonable inference, but it is not an implication.
Even your pet cats can determine some things about you, they are nephesh creatures, and can think. They have souls according to the Bible in Genesis. They may not be able to think to the same degree that we can, but they still can. God's thoughts are higher than ours, God has full knowledge and we can only have partial knowledge, but we can still think and use the premises that we know - or at least think we know - and deducted and abstract more knowledge from such. Our knowledge will never be as complete as God's because our minds are finite, but of the premises that are true or certain we can obtain more knowledge that is also true or certain.
I disagree and consider evolutionism to be the elaborate fantasy, or at most, in the words of Karl Popper prior to trolling, a metaphysical research program.
The weight of evidence seems to imply otherwise
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ProfessorP
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reply to Iamnotaparakeet (previous discussion was too long to fully quote)
I agree with what you are saying here. God does want people to think through what He says through the Word and prophets. I do not believe, however, that we should try to analyze God. Why God does what He does, how He does it, what He will do in the future, etc. unless directly stated in the Bible are all beyond us.
As an example of this, think about Old Testament Scriptures. I am a Christian, and so I believe that the many of the Hebrew interpretations of Scriptures are incorrect. Much of that is due to the Hebrew scholars jumping to conclusions rather than reading carefully. Hence, modern Jews assume that monotheism implies that Christ could not have been co-creator with the Heavenly Father, even though the first line in the Bible states that in the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth. Elohim is plural. I believe that Hebrew interpretations have jumped to false conclusions about that plurality.
ProfessorP
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For the most part, I have been trained as an economist. Economists create and use models that have useful abilities to predict. No good economist believes, however, that all of the assumptions of an economic model are true.
I look at evolution and quantum physics in a similar manner. They can be useful models. I do not know which, if any, of their assumptions are true. It does not really matter for my purposes.
Conversely, as a Christian, I believe that the Bible is literally true, but I am open to the view that multiple interpretations are consistent with the Bible's statements.
Faith and opinions prove nothing.
Facts support evolution, while fantasy supports religion.
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And why is it that you never see the evolutionists bash Muslims, Jews, or Buddhists? Why is it only Christians?
I'm Christian, but I believe in evolution, and what does it matter what I believe? How is that any of your business, and how does it affect your life?
I take it up with anyone who believes in Creationism.
The reason I do it is because I think it is incredibly dangerous to believe in something when the only proof is a story book written thousands of years ago by primitive people.
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ProfessorP
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And why is it that you never see the evolutionists bash Muslims, Jews, or Buddhists? Why is it only Christians?
I'm Christian, but I believe in evolution, and what does it matter what I believe? How is that any of your business, and how does it affect your life?
I take it up with anyone who believes in Creationism.
The reason I do it is because I think it is incredibly dangerous to believe in something when the only proof is a story book written thousands of years ago by primitive people.
This is similar to believing in God. The statement that God does not exist is a null hypothesis. It can possibly be disproven, but it cannot be proven. Ultimately, whether or not God exists is an empirical matter. Some people (including myself) believe that this has been shown to them. The nature of the evidence, however, is that it cannot be shown to others. Similarly, the truth of the Bible (which includes the story of creation) has been shown to me. While evidence for extraordinary wisdom and insight in the Bible could possibly be shown to unbelievers, my experience is that they refuse to accept it, regardless of the strength of that evidence.
I do believe, however, that if you sincerely pray and ask God to show Himself to you, stating that you will let Him change you if that is His will, you will get an answer to that prayer. I have found that many unbelievers are too afraid to make that prayer in a sincere way.
I do believe, however, that if you sincerely pray and ask God to show Himself to you, stating that you will let Him change you if that is His will, you will get an answer to that prayer. I have found that many unbelievers are too afraid to make that prayer in a sincere way.
Bull. Proof that cannot be shown to other people is not proof. It is a hallucination.
Replace the word god in your post with "the invisible dragons that live in peoples garages", how does it sound?
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A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
ProfessorP
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I do believe, however, that if you sincerely pray and ask God to show Himself to you, stating that you will let Him change you if that is His will, you will get an answer to that prayer. I have found that many unbelievers are too afraid to make that prayer in a sincere way.
Bull. Proof that cannot be shown to other people is not proof. It is a hallucination.
Replace the word god in your post with "the invisible dragons that live in peoples garages", how does it sound?
Since about half of the population has had similar proof, it is not like "the invisible dragons that live in people's garages". I have mostly been a skeptical and scientific person, so when I became a believer at the age of 39, I tried to analyze what had happened. I experienced a series of miraculous events over the next few months, confirming my belief. The Wisdom of the Bible provided further proof.
If about half of the population had visited a place to which you had never been, and they described wonderful things in that place which were different from anything you had seen, would you say that they had hallucinated their experiences? Or, if it could be very important and very wonderful, would you try to visit that place yourself?
I would try to visit the place myself. Or better yet, find pictures.
Things that exist have some sort of proof, not a story book written about them.
And I tried for many years to "see god". They were the worst years of my life by far.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
ProfessorP
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 53
Location: San Clemente, CA
Things that exist have some sort of proof, not a story book written about them.
And I tried for many years to "see god". They were the worst years of my life by far.
I am really sorry if you have tried to find God , and He did not show Himself to you. Please try praying again and ask through His Son, Jesus, that He show Himself to you. If you do not mind, I will also pray for that.
