I am officially distubed by the truth of U.S healthcare.

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wtf does that have to do with this discussion?



wtf does that have to do with this discussion?

One of the leading causes of health problems is STRESS, which would affect people's health. So would Europeans be living as long or longer than Americans if they had a similar amount of stress, somehow I seriously doubt it.

Methinks you create your own stress, Inuyasha.

Also, I think it is simplistic to assume that shorter work weeks and earlier retirement leads to less stress. And that this is the reason Europeans tend to live longer.

Although I will concede that living in a country with universal healtchare probably reduces stress overall.

Explains your long waiting lines and the fact your health systems and some of these countries are in even worse shape than the US currently is.

A free market ideally doesn't involve crony capitalism which is Government intervention in favour of big businesses or socialism which is Government intervention in favour of the greater good. Yes I know this isn't the exact definition of socialism since its definition is no private ownership of property and all that but Government invention for the greater good is usually how the term is used.

The problem is that there are people who think the free market has to be so pure and unadulterated that even a single red tape makes it crony capitalism or socialism, which is as ridiculous as saying any crack that isn't 100% uncut isn't real crack. Yes both types of Government intervention has driven up costs in the US health care system, but to say that every problem it has can be traced back to it is a really simplistic way of looking at it. It seems to me that health care inherently has imperfect competition as well as the fact that the supply is in demand from everyone since everyone needs health care as opposed to everyone needing a TV. Keep in mind this is just as far as I know, health care is a really complicated subject and I haven't exactly made my mind up on it.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 05 Aug 2011, 8:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Did you see the report? We're dead last. And stress? Are you kidding? Do you have any idea how stressful it is for a family to get a diagnosis of cancer and then find out that they will absolutely go broke just to pay for it? Do you know the stress of having a sick kid that you simply can't afford to take to the doctor? Have you even considered how many people just walk around in pain because they can't afford adequate treatment, or they're too scared to find out what's really wrong because it could ruin them financially?

Did you notice which state has the best care in the U.S? It's Vermont, the state that just made single-payer official. Good for them. Maybe they can set an example for the rest of us.

Insurance Companies can get away with it because of the crony capitalism. For example there are over 1,000 health insurance companies in the U.S., but only 3 are allowed to compete in California. If all the insurance companies were allowed to compete across state lines, the ones that hose people because they have no competition would suddenly have to change their behavior or end up out of business.

You are full of total bullsh*t.

You know nothing about the Canadian healthcare system, let me assure you.

Those who need medical treatment get it asap. You find a lump in your breast or prostate? You get in for a scan in a day or two.

I will say that there may be longer lines for non-critical MRI's, tests, etc., but that is just because we actually have a system that provides MRI's to those who need them. Sure, the lines would be a LOT shorter if a large portion of the population couldn't afford to pay for them. They'd be just like the lines in the US.

The problem with the "universal healthcare is BAD" crowd is that they have a ton of misconceptions about what healthcare is really like in other countries. And don't bother quoting news articles to me about the state of healthcare in Canada. Journalists go for the hype.

A friend of mine, who grew up in Canada but moved to the US to work, was in town last week. We got talking about the state of healthcare in the US. She told us how she has worked to dispell many misconceptions that Americans have regarding the Canadian healthcare system. Much like those stated by Inuyasha (see above).

Here are a few real life examples from just the past few months:

I had to take my son to the doctor last week. I got an appointment the same day. They were concerned, so sent us to the ER at the hospital across the street. My son was admitted and seen by a doctor within 30 minutes. They tested his urine, blood, and performed a chest x-ray. All within a couple of hours. Luckily, he got a clean bill of health, and we left. And I didn't have to pay one cent.

A family friend recently found a lump in her breast. She got an ultrasound the next day, an MRI a few days after that and a biopsy, and a full body scan a few days after that. She was scheduled for chemo to start less than two weeks after she found the lump.

My mother-in-law has a history of kidney stones. They came back and were very painful. They did an ultrasound less than a week after she went to the doctor. They found a cyst, and scheduled a contrast MRI. That test was done less than a week after the ultrasound. Luckily, the cyst was just fluid-filled.

And a few more examples from several years ago:

My grandmother needed a knee replacement. She waited about two months. And she was placed in a residential rehabilitation centre after the surgery for several weeks until she could walk safely on her own. She needed cataract surgery. She waited about three weeks.

A co-worker developed a severe headache, which was something very abnormal for him. He went to his doctor who prescribed some medication and told him to come back if he needed to. He went back a few days later (the headache was no better) and they scheduled him for an emergency MRI the next day.

You can listen to all sorts of stories about how sh*tty the Canadian healthcare system is, but it simply isn't the experience I have had, or that my family and friends have had. And Canadians who openly share these sentiments with Americans have nothing to prove - if healthcare here were crappy, I'd be more than willing to b*tch and complain about it. But it's not crappy. And I would NEVER want to live in a country with a healthcare system like that in the US.

Exactly. Although there are a few cases where we f****d up on triage such as handing swine flu vaccines out like candy on Halloween rather than putting vulnerable groups at first priority, it doesn't add up to the public system being inherently f****d up. There was also another case where NHL players got to cut lines but once again a few cases of f**k ups doesn't mean the public system is bad, it means that any system public or private that involves being managed by humans is inherently subject to human error and/or corruption. I'm satisfied with our system, we have privatized specialists fields of health care as well as general public health care and it seems to work fine.

I get what you mean but the wording seems to indicate you think finiancial problems don't affect people outside of that....nothing to be a jerk about.

Exactly, I have no problem with people profiting from products really I mean everyone should have the right to have a buisness if they want.....but medical care is not a product its something some people need in order to not die or have a terrible quality of life.

Probably not which clearly proves the fact that most americans are stressed is a problem, we should not be so stressed it lowers our life expectancy so much.

Yeah screw the greater good communist BS right? lol .

You beat me to it...But yes our media likes to make up all kinds of horrible theories about Universal Healthcare and scare people with words like communism, socialism, government intervention ect.

f**k socialized medicine, sucking McCarthy's cock cures all ills rawr