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If we are to believe cnbc on this, and quite frankly I don't. We are borrowing 43 cents on every dollar, that is unsustainable.

This is true. But would she have been a darling of the right if they knew that she went after big oil? Campaign managers were quick to sweep this one under the carpet.

Net interest paid by the U.S. government was $197 billion in the most recent full year. Tax revenues were $2162 billion. The U.S. could easily have stayed current on its debt without a debt ceiling increase, by covering interest payments from tax revenues.

Again, $197 billion < $2162 billion.

Perhaps you should try learning how to do basic arithmetic before accusing anyone of being delusional.

Last edited by psychohist on 08 Aug 2011, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

To the contrary, Boehner agreed to $800 billion in revenue increases from closing tax loopholes as part of a $4 trillion ($4000 billion) deficit reduction package. It was Obama who reneged on that agreement, not Boehner.

What about inflation? how much of the bonds are held externally and owned by the Federal Reserve. Having a country where the largest holder of debt is its own central bank tells you more about the country than any other indicator. It is worse prognosis than having a high percentage of ownership abroad.

Not to mention, the total debt to GDP - which is in excess of 380% is probably the best metric to determine the countries ability to pay back debts. No country has ever survived a 380% debt to GDP and not had some MAJOR crisis. The statistic is far worse when you consider the impact on the economy - what happens when we stop going futher into debt?
The GDP contracts and makes the ratio even worse.

The Federal Reserve is in the process of setting up the largest inflationary collapse in the history of the world. When Breton Woods is abandoned, the value of the dollar will dissapear. This as a direct result of the incestious relationship between the government, the Federal Reserve and the financial industry.

I'm well aware of the Republican talking points. At least you aren't fabricating quotes again here. But the deal was never that close according to Boehner.



Boehner walked away with lots of time on the clock. That's not how you negotiate in good faith. He was bending to pressure because the Republicans would not go along with revenue increases. Instead he quit and spent the rest of the week conducting a political sideshow by crafting an entirely Republican plan that had no hope of passing the Senate and WH. And it still took him three tries to pass it with his own Republicans. An absolute waste of time that would have been better spent in negotiations.

Many republicans have signed anti-tax pledges. They've shackled themselves to them and pretend they can't budge. But divided government requires negotiation, not tantrums and ideological purity. He says he got 98% of what he wanted. That's not being reasonable.

The deal was never that close because Geithner and Obama's other lackeys never came up with more than about $1000 billion in cuts out of the promised $3200 billion.


Boehner walked away when Obama reneged on the agreed $800 billion in revenues, demanding $1200 billion instead. Once Obama's bad faith had been shown, it was rather pointless to continue negotiations.

The deal that did happen got approved by the center, and voted against by both extremes - half of the Tea Party caucus and half of the Progressive Democrats. It was about as much of a political compromise as any bill ever is.

Yes, yes, and he also promised everyone a pony and Boehner cried when he didn't get it. Both sides are spinning a version of events and both sides had pressures from forces in Congress. Whatever way you slice it Obama was discussing entitlement cuts and spending cuts that greatly outnumbered any revenue enhancement, at the risk of upsetting his own base. The bipartisan gang of six (including conservatives) in the Senate wanted even more revenue. They were elected as well. They get to say something too as much as it might hurt your feelings. It's not personal.

What is true beyond the spin is that the House walked away a week early because the R caucus didn't want revenue enhancers. Most Republicans have signed the no tax pledge. They are crying about the potential for revenue in the super congress plan as we speak. They are inflexible.

S&P noted the resistance to taxes. And they also commented on the use of the debt ceiling as a "political chip". And they didn't like it.

There would be no debt ceiling debate if we hadn't upped spending in the first place. The blame can be placed equally between Bush and Obama. Obama has spent nearly as much in 3 years as Bush did in 8. Blaming the downgrade on the debate is honestly the most laughable thing I've ever heard. I find myself having a hard time getting mad at S&P about this downgrade, I mean realistically we're not going to be paying this debt off any time soon and probably never will. In the year 2000 we ran a 237 billion dollar surplus(the largest in US history) and without crunching the numbers, that would take about 60 years of that to pay off the debt starting now. Our trillion deficits don't seem to have any end in and that's just piling on more and more debt. These supposedly huge cuts we made over the next decade are literally nothing. Instead of adding something like 15 trillion in new debt, we'll only 13 trillion. Real default seems inevitable.

You're kidding? OK, let's just immediately shut down the entire government, including the military. Then we can continue making payments on the debt.

We don't have to shut down the military either.

We would have enough to meet obligations, it's just every pet project of the President and Congress would end up being closed down.

You can laugh at S&P but I don't know that it helps.

The fact that we've piled such an enormous amount of debt is still the ultimate cause for the downgrade. I don't buy that the debate is the issue, you will never get any meaningful reform unless you have debate. If you actually want compromise, debate is necessary. It doesn't just happen spontaneously.

For what I know, Obama is still lobbying for more spending so forgive me and the rest of the sane people in this country to not be so enthusiastic about raising taxes. I wouldn't even consider a tax increase until government gets it's spending in order. Maybe when we have a balanced budget and end these wars, you can debate raising taxes for specific projects. Otherwise, whats the point? Give them more money, they just spend more on bombs and bailouts.

Is there some initiation into the conservative Republican club that entails killing the parts of your brain that have knowledge on the monetary system of the US? You know, the fact that unlike Greece or Italy, American PRINTS ITS OWN MONEY??! !

The ignorance of conservatives and right-libertarians who want deflationary policies disgusts me.

Yes printing 14.3 trillion dollars will so help the economy, because hyper-inflation is such a good thing.

Why should deflation upset you?