London is burning...

Page 3 of 6 [ 91 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

cdfox7
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,700

09 Aug 2011, 5:36 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Cameron's moronic austerity cuts are jeoporadizing society and exaccerbating social tensions in Great Britian.

Well Cameron did take economical advice from Jean Chrétien, our county's austerity measures are modelled on Canada's austerity model back in the 90s.

Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

09 Aug 2011, 5:46 pm

cdfox7 wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Cameron's moronic austerity cuts are jeoporadizing society and exaccerbating social tensions in Great Britian.

Well Cameron did take economical advice from Jean Chrétien, our county's austerity measures are modelled on Canada's austerity model back in the 90s.

While I detest what those blue Liberals did to Canada, I have to say that the economic situation Canada faced at that time was nowhere near as dire as the current one and at least that coupled the social disinvestment approach with tighter oversight over the banks.

_________________
http://www.voterocky.org/

cdfox7
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,700

09 Aug 2011, 6:03 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

cdfox7 wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Cameron's moronic austerity cuts are jeoporadizing society and exaccerbating social tensions in Great Britian.

Well Cameron did take economical advice from Jean Chrétien, our county's austerity measures are modelled on Canada's austerity model back in the 90s.

I agree, back in the 90s its was only Canada that have had an national debt problem. While the UK's austerity measures are deep in global economical f**k up. IMO I don't trust that the Tories would invest in rebuilding the economic. Its the same old s**t when the Tories are in power there's always social tension, they don't give a s**t about the "peasants".

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

09 Aug 2011, 6:46 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

In my eyes, self righteousness isn't a good enough reason to murder someone.

It involves no self-righteousness to desire for wielders of great suffering and brutality, in the name of justice,
to experience a minute portion of the pain they have themselves inflicted in the name of individual and oligarchical financial self-interest.

You just defined self-righteousness right there. You think a disproportionate amount of damage is justified as a response to perceived injustices. Sorry but if someone isn't violating your right to life and property then killing someone is murder. And before anyone starts getting all "You think it's justified to kill someone over a damn PS3 you capitalist pig?", property includes your home and your place of business if you own it.

"Disproportionate"? There can be no proportionate justice for a handful of individuals who've killed or caused suffering to billions.
Although it is telling that you condition the circumstances warranting corporal action against them as having to be so dire as to cause death themselves or loss of property. I don't subscribe to the ethical legitimacy of the claim to property of any kind, so that's a tough row for you to hoe, if you're intent on appealing to a love for property as-projected on to me.

Direct violation of rights is a much more cut and dried and reliable measure of proportionality than whatever the court of public outrage determines. Not liking how someone conducts their business isn't a justifiable cause to burn their place of business down and put their lives at risk. Hahaha love of property, it has jack s**t to do with materialism. Violating another person's right to owning property violates their personal autonomy and may violate their means of survival.

ValentineWiggin wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

I wouldn't spare Bernie Madoff from a bullet to the head, so I don't see where the double standard lies.

We can agree to agree, then.

Sometimes I get the feeling that you think I'm some capitalist pig who idolizes those high on the totem pole. Scumbaggery is scumbagggery whether it is done through the means of white collar crime or blue collar crime.

GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

09 Aug 2011, 8:13 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Direct violation of rights is a much more cut and dried and reliable measure of proportionality than whatever the court of public outrage determines. Not liking how someone conducts their business isn't a justifiable cause to burn their place of business down and put their lives at risk. Hahaha love of property, it has jack sh** to do with materialism. Violating another person's right to owning property violates their personal autonomy and may violate their means of survival.

So, if greedy plutocrats can INDIRECTLY threaten the means of survival of the middle and lower classes by crashing the global economy in order to add needless billions to their existing billions that's okay, then?

Wow... Just, wow.

_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

09 Aug 2011, 8:25 pm

GoonSquad wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Direct violation of rights is a much more cut and dried and reliable measure of proportionality than whatever the court of public outrage determines. Not liking how someone conducts their business isn't a justifiable cause to burn their place of business down and put their lives at risk. Hahaha love of property, it has jack sh** to do with materialism. Violating another person's right to owning property violates their personal autonomy and may violate their means of survival.

Wow... Just, wow.

Loaded question, great for credibility. Learn to debate like an adult rather than like an angsty teenager.

No the court of public outrage should not be able to authorize the use of force. "Indirect harm" is a highly arbitrary concept which leaves too much room for subjectivity to be defined or measured in a cut and dried fashion. I could go burn down the MTV temple right now and say that it has caused me enough indirect harm to justify my actions even though my reaction to its existence also plays a part in how much it harms me. But hey what do I know? A knuckle dragging savage like me can't tolerate nuance.

GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

09 Aug 2011, 9:09 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

No the court of public outrage should not be able to authorize the use of force. "Indirect harm" is a highly arbitrary concept which leaves too much room for subjectivity to be defined or measured in a cut and dried fashion.

What we are considering here are matters of natural law and such matters have always been settled by the court of public outrage…

If the abuses of King George against his American subjects warranted insurrection and rebellion,then surely the recent crimes of the global plutarchy against the lower classes warrants… well, I don’t think the reaction could be too harsh.

We aren't talking about torts here. These are literally crimes against humanity.

_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus

YippySkippy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,986

09 Aug 2011, 9:43 pm

The American colonists rebelled because they were paying taxes to a government that didn't represent their interests. Taxation without representation. Does ANYONE feel that today's U.S. government attempts to act in the country's best interests?

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

10 Aug 2011, 12:18 am

Obligatory comment about why I maintain a personal armory and the competence to use it.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

10 Aug 2011, 1:30 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

WHEN this happens in America I hope the mobs have the good sense to target bankers, politicians, and greedy doctors and lawyers, NOT mom & pop shops and candy stores!

What's wrong with people?

Right because it's not rioting itself that makes it wrong, but who you target :roll:

. Whether a mob targets mom and pop shops or banks doesn't matter to me, they do this sh** just because they can.

That's a bit ignorant, considering the motives professed by some of the anarchists, that being discontent with the current class system-
their grievances are legitimate, their targets irrational.

...And the complete lack of regard for others which allows them to see rioting as acceptable in the first place is completely inexcusable. Just because they hate the system, it doesn't mean they have to make it harder for others to survive within it.

I have no problem with a lack of regard for "others" when those others are responsible for vast economic inequalities and millions of DEATHS resultant of them. I'd buy the anarchists some duct tape, kerosene, and a match if they were targeting the actual arbiters of the horrors they claim to be taking a stand against, and laugh gleefully as fingernails were ripped out and flesh bubbled and charred off muscle, saddened only with the thought that those individuals would soon die, whereas the hordes of people whose lives they've ruined have and will suffer for decades.

Yeah I can see why you think so highly of domestic terrorist Bernadine Dorn...

Such and such is rich, so you see them as evil and must be destroyed...

While there are evil people in the world, I seriously doubt most bankers are murderers...

You want to see a perfect example of why what you are arguing for is complete and utter stupidity at best, see the French Revolution.

GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

10 Aug 2011, 1:41 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Yeah I can see why you think so highly of domestic terrorist Bernadine Dorn...

Such and such is rich, so you see them as evil and must be destroyed...

While there are evil people in the world, I seriously doubt most bankers are murderers...

You want to see a perfect example of why what you are arguing for is complete and utter stupidity at best, see the French Revolution.

...and if we don't find a way to reestablish a bit of social justice and economic equality the French revolution is exactly what we're headed for.

London burns now, Kansas city comes next.

_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

10 Aug 2011, 1:47 am

GoonSquad wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Yeah I can see why you think so highly of domestic terrorist Bernadine Dorn...

Such and such is rich, so you see them as evil and must be destroyed...

While there are evil people in the world, I seriously doubt most bankers are murderers...

You want to see a perfect example of why what you are arguing for is complete and utter stupidity at best, see the French Revolution.

...and if we don't find a way to reestablish a bit of social justice and economic equality the French revolution is exactly what we're headed for.

London burns now, Kansas city comes next.

Social Justice is arbitrary and in all honesty depends on what someone considers is justice at any given moment.

Justice does not equal social justice.

GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

10 Aug 2011, 1:57 am

Inuyasha wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Yeah I can see why you think so highly of domestic terrorist Bernadine Dorn...

Such and such is rich, so you see them as evil and must be destroyed...

While there are evil people in the world, I seriously doubt most bankers are murderers...

You want to see a perfect example of why what you are arguing for is complete and utter stupidity at best, see the French Revolution.

...and if we don't find a way to reestablish a bit of social justice and economic equality the French revolution is exactly what we're headed for.

London burns now, Kansas city comes next.

Social Justice is arbitrary and in all honesty depends on what someone considers is justice at any given moment.

Justice does not equal social justice.

Play whatever semantics games you like, the fact remains, the lower classes will only pay for the excesses of the plutocrats for so long before they rise up.

_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus

91
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

10 Aug 2011, 2:01 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

You need a generous serving of Dostoyevsky, I recommend 'Demons'

_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

10 Aug 2011, 2:04 am

GoonSquad wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Yeah I can see why you think so highly of domestic terrorist Bernadine Dorn...

Such and such is rich, so you see them as evil and must be destroyed...

While there are evil people in the world, I seriously doubt most bankers are murderers...

You want to see a perfect example of why what you are arguing for is complete and utter stupidity at best, see the French Revolution.

...and if we don't find a way to reestablish a bit of social justice and economic equality the French revolution is exactly what we're headed for.

London burns now, Kansas city comes next.

Social Justice is arbitrary and in all honesty depends on what someone considers is justice at any given moment.

Justice does not equal social justice.

Play whatever semantics games you like, the fact remains, the lower classes will only pay for the excesses of the plutocrats for so long before they rise up.

I'm not playing semantics, you are trying to justify the idea that you should be allowed to destroy what someone has built for the simple reason that you don't have it and want it.

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

10 Aug 2011, 2:31 am

Inuyasha wrote:

I'm not playing semantics, you are trying to justify the idea that you should be allowed to destroy what someone has built for the simple reason that you don't have it and want it.

Almost, but not quite. Change the last part to "for the simple reason that you don't approve of the current system" or something similar, and you've got it in a nutshell, emphasis the nut part. Really though Inuyasha, you couldn't ask for more from some of the posters in this thread as far as helping you out goes; next time someone makes a crack about conservatives being the violent or dangerous ones, just point them to this thread.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Page 3 of 6 [ 91 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Jump to:

London is burning... Post Reply New Topic

London is burning...