The defence of marriage issue: my take

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Indeed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

It is not supposed to happen, but got news for you, it does happen.


Homosexuality is a choice, you choose to behave in a homosexual lifestyle, you do not choose what color of skin you are born with.

...

No one wakes up one morning and decides to be attracted to the opposite or the same sex. And yes they choose to act on such urges, what's the big freaking deal about what two consenting adults do in their bedrooms?

That is highly debatable if homosexuality is a choice. One of my oldest friends, who was also my best man, is gay, and he had told me he had had same sex attraction his whole life. It was never a choice for him. One of his brothers, who is an evangelical Christian, had told him he could choose his sexuality. My friend answered him with the challenge to become gay for one second. When his brother answered that he could not, as he was born straight, my friend told him his being gay was the same thing - he was born that way, and could not choose to be straight.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm not talking about what two consenting adults do in their bedroom, I'm talking about them trying to force it on kids in schools.

Forced in what way?

that' would make for a great topic on its own

I read a thoughtful progressive marin journal (don't remember the name anymore) from a newsstand next to my bus stop and it talked about a secular jewish family who reapproached religion with justifications that didn't bother their secular ways. They say a secular prayer of thanks before meals, it is not to a God but they manage to make it meaningful to themselves and they do it to emote gratitude, a value that enriches their lives and makes for a better human being, and one they hope their children will pick up. They also keep a 7th day holy to disconnect from the world(especially electronics), to reflect, and spend it with each other (and while their children are young, it is enforced.)

I sometimes think that atheist and secular fear of ritual is that the process is sometimes viewed as a substitute for thought and the non-questioning of irrationalities. Irrationalities will always exist, but when they are practiced, and walled off from being challenged, the ideal is more important then both people and their lives. These are just my gut feelings, I honestly don't know as it is not something that's come up often and I haven't had time to think it through.

A lot of these human traditions have not been done away with fully, and though less people take it seriously, what we're left with is an evolved form of it or its been outsourced to other institutions. One problem I have is that many of our holidays have been removed of their meaningful rituals, and all we're left with is companies adjusting the work-week so that you can have a 3day weekend, and the consumption of a lot of alcohol. I don't support blue laws but I don't think we're better without them. There is a great secular case for many of these issues, and sometimes because of the attempt to be all-inclusive, their not made.

Uh... As I recall, you were talking about homosexuality being a choice; it was only in your last post that you brought up how Gays are allegedly trying to force their life style on our kids.
By the way, there is a difference between trying to force something on kids, and just having kids be accepting of it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The law has long recognized that "separate but equal" does not satisfy the requirements of equal protection.

The passion on this question demonstrates precisely why the definition of marriage must be expanded to include same sex couples--because if you call it anything else, it's not marriage, and if it's not marriage, then marriage continues to be a status from which same sex couples are excluded.

In a jurisdiction that offers civil unions, an opposite sex couple has three choices: cohabitation (which may or may not bring certain legal obligations on each partner over time), civil union and marriage. A same-sex couple has only two choices. So long as that disparity remains, nomenclature is important.

So far as I can see, there are only two potential solutions: open legal marriage to same-sex couples, or deprive everyone of legal marriage (the French approach). I'm comfortable with either one.

I don't think a compromise is good enough. Separate but equal isn't equal and legislature should not be governed by religion or some juvenile complex about it. They should have equal rights and recognition and not have to settle for less.

Well I was not trying to say they should settle for less......but the idea of a perfectly traditional marrige has become kind of obsolete for most of society. So I was just more suggesting that should not be the standard by which all bonds between two people who love each other are based upon. And all of these bonds should be treated the same legally.

I disagree with traditional marriage becoming obsolete, as I'm in a traditional marriage, myself. And from what I've observed, it's the right to have a traditional marriage that gay people want for themselves. And they should in no way be denied.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Many cultures advocate polygamy, should we allow that too?

How about child brides, many cultures practice that?


Btw, I'm not talking hypotheticals.

BIG WATER, Utah— Members of Utah's polygamous communities are making a renewed push to decriminalize polygamy. They argue that if state officials really want to combat abuse in the closed society, they should decriminalize their marriages.

Boudicca Joseph was one of the nine wives of Alex Joseph, who founded the southern Utah town of Big Water. She is one of those pushing for polygamy to be decriminalized, arguing that it is the only way to really fight crimes within the closed and often isolated polygamous communities.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu ... 2928.story

So, Fox News is now coming out in favor of polygamy. That's interesting.

I suppose it isn't such a bad idea. You could have one wife who was smart, who could work and bring in some money. Another wife who took charge of the household work. And another who was just plain hot and sexy.

I remember reading Mark Twain's comments about Joseph Smith's wives. He said that most of them were so homely that marrying them and adding them to his harem amounted to an act of charity more than anything else.

King Solomon's personal copulation cabinet consisted of no fewer than 300 wives and 700 concubines.

Polygamy is fine with me but it will take another generation or three to legalize it.

But with 70% of the under 35 crowd in favor of gay marriage, that debate is all but won. It's been decoupled from the other social issues and won over the Independents and the young.

Holy geez! And Rick Santoram was worried about man-on-dog marriage!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Reminds me of a quote from the iconic 1967 movie Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?



Maybe it is time for a remake of this movie, but this time with homosexual marriage as the theme.