Opinions on 9/11

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9/11?? (Pick the BEST option)

A day of infamy where evil men did evil deeds against the US. One to be remembered and avenged.	21%	[ 17 ]
The day of a terrorist attack on US soil. To be remembered solemnly for the years to come.	16%	[ 13 ]
A learning event for the US. US intel dropped the ball, and this is a sign of how we need to adapt to a post-Cold War world	10%	[ 8 ]
An instance of blowback for decades of terrible US actions towards foreign nations.	13%	[ 11 ]
An overblown event where the US lost face and has whined about it for a baby despite the millions of other deaths the last century	9%	[ 7 ]
A sign of how far the evil US government will go to control the masses. The government attacked the twin towers.	12%	[ 10 ]
Another day. I don't care.	10%	[ 8 ]
A great event where the evil Americans were killed like the pigs they are.	4%	[ 3 ]
Unsure/Ambivalent	2%	[ 2 ]
Let me see the results!! !	4%	[ 3 ]

Total votes : 82

zer0netgain
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15 Sep 2011, 10:52 am

A FAIL on two points.

1. Your claim that NORAD doesn't deal with domestic airspace is folly. They deal with all threats, and why would they do an exercise mimicking 9/11 (a domestic attack) if it did not fall within their jurisdiction?

2. Popular Mechanics is not a credible source. Their 9/11 "debunk" piece was cherry picked analysis ignoring many documented facts.

marshall
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15 Sep 2011, 11:15 am

hyperlexian wrote:

(Awesomelyglorious, your wording in the poll is pushing it with this phrase: "A great event where the evil Americans were killed like the pigs they are.", because it is inviting people to insult and disparage an entire nation of people. watch your wording please.)

I think AG was being hyperbolic and humorous with the wording, but sad to say there are people who genuinely feel that way. I've seen it all. There are also people who would interpret "to be avenged" as to commit genocide against random Muslim nations in retaliation for terrorist acts.

LiendaBalla
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15 Sep 2011, 1:47 pm

I'm between 'overblown' and 'control the masses'. I wouldn't say citizens are whining at all. I don't trust the news outlets either.

techstepgenr8tion
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15 Sep 2011, 1:57 pm

I went for option, post-cold war learning curve, but you forgot one on the list: The heathen be striken!! !

Regardless yes: it was an evil and tragic event. Human suffering and mass murder though tend to rarely be much less.

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Cornflake
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15 Sep 2011, 2:10 pm

zer0netgain wrote:

1. Your claim that NORAD doesn't deal with domestic airspace is folly.

I actually said "As I understand it", which isn't a claim, and in any case it's not "doesn't": it was "didn't" (in 2001) - and that's "didn't" in the sense that no monitoring of internal flights was performed. Of course ATC could call up assistance, and that's what they did. There was no other method available.
Interestingly Wikipedia understands it the say way too:

Quote:

Formation
The growing perception of the threat of long-range Soviet strategic bombers armed with nuclear weapons brought the U.S. and Canada into closer cooperation for air defense. While attacks from the Pacific or Atlantic would have been detected by Airborne Early Warning aircraft, Navy ships, or offshore radar platforms, the Arctic was underprotected. In the early 1950s the U.S. and Canada agreed to construct a series of radar stations across North America to detect a Soviet attack over the Arctic. The first series of radars was the Pinetree Line, completed in 1954 and consisting of 33 stations across southern Canada. However, technical defects in the system led to more radar networks being built. In 1957, the McGill Fence was completed; it consisted of Doppler radar for the detection of low-flying craft. This system was roughly 300 miles (480 km) north of the Pinetree Line along the 55th parallel north. The third joint system was the Distant Early Warning Line (DEW Line), also completed in 1957. This was a network of 58 stations along the 69th parallel north. The systems gave around three hours' warning of a bomber attack before they could reach any major population center.

Quote:

After the September 11, 2001 attacks, the NORAD mission evolved to include monitoring of all aircraft flying in the interior of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Aerospace_Defense_Command
I wanted to see what the NORAD site itself had to say but it's temporarily unavailable. (well, from the UK anyway)
But, if you think Wikipedia is in error then feel free to edit it - although I would have thought someone might have done so by now if it was in fact incorrect.

Quote:

2. Popular Mechanics is not a credible source. Their 9/11 "debunk" piece was cherry picked analysis ignoring many documented facts

Oh, Ok. I'll just believe 'some guys online' instead, then. After all, those guys never cherry pick.

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Vigilans
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15 Sep 2011, 3:55 pm

Where is "The planes were actually chemtrail aircraft being piloted by reptilian shapeshifters in the service of the Illuminati" ? I mean, hello?

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iamnotaparakeet
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15 Sep 2011, 6:46 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Where is "The planes were actually chemtrail aircraft being piloted by reptilian shapeshifters in the service of the Illuminati" ? I mean, hello?

Just wait and And-robot will probably say it at some time or another.

Awesomelyglorious
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15 Sep 2011, 8:16 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Umm.... ok? Americans should have tough skin. They can deal with it. Besides, I am an American. I was born and raised in this country and have lived in it my entire life. Anybody who seeks the death of Americans will also be seeking my death as well... so... I don't see the point of concern.

marshall wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

Honestly, given that I think the notion of "vengeance" is absurd given the notion of a nebulous terrorist organization.... and given that I see vengeance as a terrible grounds for foreign policy in many instances... I honestly took that as being as far as I needed to be. I am not bothered by putting an option explicitly promoting genocide against Muslim people. It just didn't come to mind.

John_Browning
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15 Sep 2011, 8:29 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

i didn't pay attention to what number that was. in my opinion the united states isn't evil, but the government was not innocent in the events leading up to it either. it was a tragic event that happened as a result of tragic events that we in the western world were responsible for.

Umm, NO! We were not responsible for any of the events claimed by Al Qaeda as a justification for the attacks. At the time all our involvement in the region was done with the consent of the nations (that were widely recognized internationally), who supported our actions to contain Saddam Husein's activities between the time of Desert Storm and operation Iraqi Freedom. Our military bases were there with consent and we were either purchasing their oil or paying agreed upon royalties to the governments to drill. Control of oil fields in Iraq has been returned to their government, and we either lease them or pay royalties to drill. There was no American imperialism in the middle east prior to 9/11, and whether there ever was in Iraq is debatable.

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15 Sep 2011, 8:47 pm

One Muslim I talked to thinks the idea of a manned Mars mission would have been more glorious than blowing up the World Trade Center

John_Browning
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15 Sep 2011, 10:18 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

One Muslim I talked to thinks the idea of a manned Mars mission would have been more glorious than blowing up the World Trade Center

That's fine. It's not starting s**t with anybody.

simon_says
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15 Sep 2011, 10:56 pm

That's what Von Braun said about WWII. And it's why the Gestapo arrested him.

Vigilans
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15 Sep 2011, 11:05 pm

androbot2084 wrote:

One Muslim I talked to thinks the idea of a manned Mars mission would have been more glorious than blowing up the World Trade Center

He's delusional. There is no more a unified Islamic space program than there is a unified Islamic nation. Its going to be the West or China (or maybe a joint endeavor) who reaches Mars first. The Muslim countries that have developed domestic launch capabilities (ie, Iran...) are more interested in using this tech as a front for ICBM and spy satellite development

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16 Sep 2011, 1:51 am

John_Browning wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

Ahem...in 1953...which U.S. organization overthrew a democratically elected president in Iran because Mosaddegh kicked out a western oil company? It wasn't the CIA, was it? With help from MI6, of course? :lol:

For other examples of U.S. imperialism, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_Uni ... ge_actions

Whew, that's a long ass list. Must have been all in the name of spreading democracy and freedom, right? haha

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16 Sep 2011, 1:20 pm

Bloviater wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

sure, absolutely. i didn't even mean military actions, but those will do. i meant IMF and World Bank. the World Bank's change in policies in the late 80s didn't negate the prior atrocities, and the IMF has been indirectly (or perhaps indirectly) responsible for thousands of deaths.

people get pretty angry when they feel like the Western (aka Northern) world has a financial stranglehold on them that leads to starvation, corruption, and other problems. it's no accident that the WTC were targeted specifically.

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androbot2084
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16 Sep 2011, 2:59 pm

The Muslim I was talking to was not delusional. The United States , Russia or China will never go to Mars because it will require an atomic bomb powered rocket.

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