Obama's "New" plan to reduce the deficit

Page 3 of 10 [ 160 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

20 Sep 2011, 10:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

customer.

They made money on the back of someone else that they didn't pay. They literally stole the program.

Except that it wasn't actually illegal to steal programs at the time.

Bill Gates doings were not of the highest order but he was still within the law.

The law has been changed since.

ruveyn

Go ahead and call me a pinko, but, at best, the wealthy have built their empires on the backs of those less fortunate than they are.

At worst, some of them are straight up robber barons.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have wealthy people. I'm just saying that the top 10% of earners should pay 90% of the taxes.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

20 Sep 2011, 10:44 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

In your world how does Warren Buffet make his money?
He is the 2nd richest person in America but
he takes no salary, receives no dividends and sells no stock
and He has no capital gains from any other source.
How does he buy lunch or pay for the gas in his car?

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

Really? Honestly?
Your answer is that Warren, the second richest man in america, made his money through T-bonds and uses them to fuel his vehicle and
buy his lunch?
Why don't you stop being a hypocrite and just say sure Warren will pay a little more in taxes
under the plan he proposes?
is it that hard to be an honest person?

under the scheme he proposes

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

20 Sep 2011, 11:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

marshall wrote:

Wealthy businessmen who are intelligent are in favor of increasing taxes. In the past business always supported the idea that the wealthy should pay the bulk of taxes in order to fund government obligations. It was a practical matter. Wealthy businessmen don't want to have to do business in a 3rd world s**thole with crumbling infrastructure and a majority of ignorant uneducated impoverished citizens. I don't believe anything has ever come to be in the US without the consent of big business. Voodoo trickle down economics isn't just bad for the poor. In the end everyone suffers.

They've also already made their wealth and their income sources are often not subject to the taxes that Obama is proposing to increase. It does affect any individual that invents a product and is making tons of money lifting them out of being the middle class though.

And they can afford to pay their taxes, unless they want to live in an otherwise impoverished third world s**thole full of uneducated dullards where nobody can even afford their great invention. You can't become massively wealthy without a consumer base to buy your products.

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

21 Sep 2011, 1:07 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

He only has to take out enough money at a time to live off of, which he doesn't have to do much.

Seriously if he really wanted to help he could write a check of $49 billion dollars right now and still have a billion left over, nobody is stopping him.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Sep 2011, 5:57 am

blauSamstag wrote:

Go ahead and call me a pinko, but, at best, the wealthy have built their empires on the backs of those less fortunate than they are.

When was the last time a poor man created employment for another poor man?

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

21 Sep 2011, 8:49 am

ruveyn wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

Go ahead and call me a pinko, but, at best, the wealthy have built their empires on the backs of those less fortunate than they are.

When was the last time a poor man created employment for another poor man?

ruveyn

and Walmart and MacDonalds.
also loansharks and slumlords
those check cashing places
Lotteries rent-to-own.
Poor people don't have a lot of cash individually but collectively they are a cash cow.
also Criminals make work for cops

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

21 Sep 2011, 9:15 am

ruveyn wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

Go ahead and call me a pinko, but, at best, the wealthy have built their empires on the backs of those less fortunate than they are.

When was the last time a poor man created employment for another poor man?

ruveyn

What Jake said.

Also, why is that even a question? The wealthy are doing the poor a favor by letting them live in relative poverty rather than abject poverty?

Is this a prelude to some sort of threat?

That "job creators need to be coddled" idea and the other "half of americans don't even pay taxes" are disingenuous BS, and if you actually believe them you are deluded.

I've said before, IMHO if you earn less than 40,000 a year you should have no income withholding of any kind at the federal level. It turns out that almost 25% of adults in the USA earn less than 20,000 a year. The "job creators" are trying to turn this nation into a banana republic and it's disgusting that so many of the people they continue to victimize are cheering them on.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

21 Sep 2011, 9:23 am

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

Moral and Intellectual Failure.
Your mother must be proud.
But don't feel bad. The deck was stacked.
You had bad Information, Bad logic and Bad upbringing.
It really was not fair.

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

21 Sep 2011, 9:26 am

Honestly, where would Walmart be without the legions of underpaid, overworked, uninsured proles who slave away in their retail purgatories?

Not to mention the asian teenagers who manufacture most of what they sell.

They are unwilling to give a little bit more back. I say we take it.

pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

21 Sep 2011, 9:35 am

I know that some of you hold a great deal of sympathy for the rich.

Back in the 1950s, we taxed the bejeezus out of the rich, and still had booming economic growth.

Now, the rich scarcely pay any taxes at all (comparatively), and we have very little economic growth.

Therefore, increasing taxes on the rich will only boost economic growth.

So much for your trickle-down nonsense.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Sep 2011, 11:37 am

blauSamstag wrote:

What Jake said.

Also, why is that even a question? The wealthy are doing the poor a favor by letting them live in relative poverty rather than abject poverty?

You have not answered the question. Who is creating the jobs? And what if the major companies decide to move off-shore and do ALL their hiring overseas? What then?

No one is under any moral obligation to hire another. That is a choice. And if A offers employment it is B's choice to accept the offer or not accept the offer under the terms offered by A.

ruveyn

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

21 Sep 2011, 1:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:

That's a bit simplistic, ruveyn.

1) US corporations are already overtaxed in comparison with other OECD nations--but this has not caused an investment exodus to, say, Canada where there are few restrictions to incoming capital (due to the FTA and NAFTA) and a significantly lower tax rate. The exodus is caused by cheap labour. A new approach on tax policy for wealthy individuals (as opposed to corporations) is not likely to have a significant impact on the cost of labour.

2) US individuals are taxable globally. Even if you move all your money to Zimbabwe, you are still going to face a tax liability to the US on your earnings. Why move your money to save you nothing at all?

3) Where will the money go? Yes, there are tax havens out there. But tax havens, by and large, have the singular characteristic of being small, and having small labour forces. There are not enough unemployed people in Bermuda and the Turks and Caicos Islands to absorb an exodus of production capacity from the United States.

_________________
--James

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

21 Sep 2011, 5:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

What Jake said.

Also, why is that even a question? The wealthy are doing the poor a favor by letting them live in relative poverty rather than abject poverty?

I earn substantially more than the median income in the USA so i am going to consider myself a job creator for the purposes of this sad parody.

I created jobs this morning when i visited the convenience store for some caffeine and then a fast food place for a hot breakfast. Those jobs probably suck but I'm low on the job creator ladder.

I help keep a lot of teamsters employed by buying things that then have to be shipped to me. Go union labor.

For lunch i hired a bosnian immigrant to make me a delicious pljeskavica and a side of fries. She is a co-owner/operator so i guess that makes her like a contractor.

The argument about "forcing" companies to go overseas is a red herring. They do that as much as they can already. And we should penalize it.

I'm not saying that anyone is obliged to hire anyone. I'm saying that the wealthy generally can't, and certainly don't, do it without outsourcing the labor in one form or another.

Unless you are doing the work with your own two hands and your own brain alone, you aren't really creating your own wealth alone - a lot of people are helping, and they deserve a fair cut. If they are unwilling to give up that share of the wealth in the form of wages and salary, we should take it in the form of taxes.

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

21 Sep 2011, 6:34 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

Moral and Intellectual Failure.
Your mother must be proud.
But don't feel bad. The deck was stacked.
You had bad Information, Bad logic and Bad upbringing.
It really was not fair.

Are you through with the juvenile theatrics?

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

21 Sep 2011, 6:36 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

Moral and Intellectual Failure.
Your mother must be proud.
But don't feel bad. The deck was stacked.
You had bad Information, Bad logic and Bad upbringing.
It really was not fair.

Are you through with the juvenile theatrics?

Are you through lying?
If your views are so weak that your arguments are required to be lies
maybe you should change your views.

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

21 Sep 2011, 6:40 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is not receiving dividends though, so the Capital Gains tax doesn't apply.

Er?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gain

Last I checked he wasn't selling stocks all over the place either.

He has a lot of US treasury bonds too, which is nontaxable, he has money but it is tied up in stocks, so while he technically has the money it can't be taxed until he sells the stock.

I am sorry you quoted me so I assume that you meant to answer my questions
you have neglected to do so.

I did answer the question.

He's already made his money JakobVirgil so he has it in stocks and treasury bonds (the money you make off a US treasury bond cannot be taxed).

Moral and Intellectual Failure.
Your mother must be proud.
But don't feel bad. The deck was stacked.
You had bad Information, Bad logic and Bad upbringing.
It really was not fair.

Are you through with the juvenile theatrics?

Are you through lying?
If your views are so weak that your arguments are required to be lies
maybe you should change your views.

Looks like you aren't through with the juvenile theatrics, and JakobVirgil didn't I already make you look like a total idiot the last time you called me a liar?

Page 3 of 10 [ 160 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 10 Next

Jump to:

Obama's "New" plan to reduce the deficit Post Reply New Topic

Obama's "New" plan to reduce the deficit