should hard drugs be legal?

Page 3 of 7 [ 100 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

27 Sep 2011, 9:43 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

Raptor wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

Raptor wrote:

should hard drugs be legal?

Probably not but I'm not going to lift a finger to keep anyone who wants to fry thier brain from doing so.

The War on Drugs hasn't done anything but waste money and resources.

They should at least be safe, and not controlled by organized crime

Hard drugs, as the title implies, aren't very safe by their very nature.
As for organized crime; wherever there's big profit to be made it's very possible that organized crime will have a hand in it.

What I'm saying is that they should be pure and of known potency.

We carve out the market for hard drugs to be the exclusive domain of criminals by making the drugs illegal. If the same people who make OTC drugs for Rite-Aid were manufacturing them, maybe they would be a lot better quality and a lot cheaper, and we wouldn't be inadvertently funding the alqaeda or FARC or someone.

Create an environment where anyone over the age of 21 can schlep down to the county clinic and buy a hit from a civil servant in a bad tie at a reasonable market price and the criminals will mostly disappear from the market.

Make sure they can get treatment at the same clinic for nothing. Staff the clinic entirely with professionals who won't be a**holes about it. Have a rule that they have to be straight to buy, and that they can only buy one hit at a time. Some will still stockpile their hits, some will sell their hits to others, but use will probably go down after an initial hike.

This will eliminate cyclical behavior where addicts score a wad of cash (by stealing or selling, or both), buy enough to stay high for days, and further remove themselves from functional society.

Kids will no longer think of it as being something rebellious and awesome but roughly as cool as going down to planned parenthood for condoms.

The stigma will be gone but the disapproval will still be there.

Doing away with the stigma is important. We want addicts to know that they can always come back.

Nope, won't go along with that.
I was thinking more along the lines of growing weed in my back yard for my own use, not of the goverment being someone's supplier.

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

27 Sep 2011, 10:01 pm

Raptor wrote:

Nope, won't go along with that.
I was thinking more along the lines of growing weed in my back yard for my own use, not of the goverment being someone's supplier.

Well it's that or the "dispensary" system for medical cannabis.

I don't use illicit drugs of any kind (just booze) but i could give a flip if people smoke pot.

Where it comes to hard drugs i am more interested in defeating vicious cycles that increase dependence and result in greater crimes.

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

27 Sep 2011, 10:07 pm

shrox wrote:

Meth is very bad, completely artificial, and it has no place in the world, heroin and cocaine do I suppose, but not in mine.

Nonsense.

Meth is manufactured by chemical synthesis but it's analogs are found widely in nature.

Where do you think we got the idea?

cw10
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 May 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 973

27 Sep 2011, 10:08 pm

shrox wrote:

Marihuana is my medicine, and has kept the effects of Dystonia pretty much at bay. Although sometimes my hands will do this...

And I get to look forward to this, oh joy...(I am already 10 years overdue)

All of this, and I have Asperger's which makes finding help even more difficult. Makes heroin not look so bad. I am to afraid to try it though.

I found an article about the discovery of the mechanism of ALS. Apparently a cause has been found.

http://news.yahoo.com/researchers-theyv ... 06872.html

I don't know how long it'll take to develop a treatment, but I also don't know if your condition is somehow related.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

27 Sep 2011, 11:41 pm

shrox wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

... Alcohol hasn't ravaged neighbourhoods or had people killing families for a fix like meth and heroin have.

You should watch Cops sometime, the cheap liquor stores aren't in the expensive neighborhoods, and DWI collisions kill many more than tweakers looking for a fix.
Alcohol IS the gateway drug, many people's first experience with it is from their parent's liquor cabinet/stash. Drink a little, then replace what you drank with water, surely Dad and Mom won't notice, and they usually don't...

Meth is very bad, completely artificial, and it has no place in the world, heroin and cocaine do I suppose, but not in mine.

Marihuana is my medicine, and has kept the effects of Dystonia pretty much at bay. Although sometimes my hands will do this...

And I get to look forward to this, oh joy...(I am already 10 years overdue)

All of this, and I have Asperger's which makes finding help even more difficult. Makes heroin not look so bad. I am to afraid to try it though.

Dude You have my permission to smoke all the weed you want even just for fun.
:lol:

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,670
Location: Seattle-ish

28 Sep 2011, 4:26 am

NeantHumain wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

trying to reduce the hyperactive side effects that opiates give me.

Opiates are usually considered to have the opposite effect on most people. That is strange.

Yeah, I'm not most people though. In my case I think they actually classify it as an epinephrin sensitivity that throws my reactions to certain drug classes off, I have a note in my medical file for dentists in particular to be aware of. I just know that whether it's codeine or oxycotin or procaine, I get a real stimulant effect from pain medications that isn't normal, so I usually buffer them with benzos of some type if I have to take them to keep me from pacing holes in the carpet.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

28 Sep 2011, 8:46 am

ruveyn wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

I'm ok with coke but meth and heroin are really f**** up drugs so I'm not really sure. Before anyone even compares them to alcohol, BS. Alcohol hasn't ravaged neighbourhoods or had people killing families for a fix like meth and heroin have. Possession should definitely be decriminalized big time though.

Part of the problem is that opiates are not legal except when administered by a licensed medical person.

Illegality is part of the problem.

ruveyn

Some drugs are just inherently dangerous. I highly doubt illegality is the root of all evil.

shrox wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

... Alcohol hasn't ravaged neighbourhoods or had people killing families for a fix like meth and heroin have.

You should watch Cops sometime, the cheap liquor stores aren't in the expensive neighborhoods, and DWI collisions kill many more than tweakers looking for a fix.

Both are irrelevant. Cheap liquor stores don't ravage neighbourhoods and there are obviously more DWI's because there are a lot more drinkers than there are tweakers. On top of that there are even less murderers than there are impaired drivers so I don't know how this even fits into the discussion. Alcohol does have a bigger effect on motor skills but that's not the point since I was talking about addiction not impairment of motor skills.

shrox wrote:

Alcohol IS the gateway drug, many people's first experience with it is from their parent's liquor cabinet/stash. Drink a little, then replace what you drank with water, surely Dad and Mom won't notice, and they usually don't...

The whole concept of a gateway drug is BS and is nothing more than a simple mix up of correlation and causation.

shrox wrote:

Meth is very bad, completely artificial, and it has no place in the world, heroin and cocaine do I suppose, but not in mine.

Whether a drug is synthetic or not doesn't really matter to me. Poison ivy is natural and that's not good for you.

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

28 Sep 2011, 8:54 am

AceOfSpades wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Part of the problem is that opiates are not legal except when administered by a licensed medical person.

Illegality is part of the problem.

ruveyn

Some drugs are just inherently dangerous. I highly doubt illegality is the root of all evil.

shrox wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

... Alcohol hasn't ravaged neighbourhoods or had people killing families for a fix like meth and heroin have.

You should watch Cops sometime, the cheap liquor stores aren't in the expensive neighborhoods, and DWI collisions kill many more than tweakers looking for a fix.

shrox wrote:

The whole concept of a gateway drug is BS and is nothing more than a simple mix up of correlation and causation.

shrox wrote:

Meth is very bad, completely artificial, and it has no place in the world, heroin and cocaine do I suppose, but not in mine.

Whether a drug is synthetic or not doesn't really matter to me. Poison ivy is natural and that's not good for you.

now to play devils advocate,

everything we humans do have a consequence and a "price",
be it drugs or shopping shoes on a sundays

should it not be up to people themselves to gauge that risk?

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

28 Sep 2011, 9:17 am

Oodain wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

Part of the problem is that opiates are not legal except when administered by a licensed medical person.

Illegality is part of the problem.

ruveyn

Some drugs are just inherently dangerous. I highly doubt illegality is the root of all evil.

shrox wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

... Alcohol hasn't ravaged neighbourhoods or had people killing families for a fix like meth and heroin have.

You should watch Cops sometime, the cheap liquor stores aren't in the expensive neighborhoods, and DWI collisions kill many more than tweakers looking for a fix.

shrox wrote:

The whole concept of a gateway drug is BS and is nothing more than a simple mix up of correlation and causation.

shrox wrote:

Meth is very bad, completely artificial, and it has no place in the world, heroin and cocaine do I suppose, but not in mine.

Whether a drug is synthetic or not doesn't really matter to me. Poison ivy is natural and that's not good for you.

now to play devils advocate,

everything we humans do have a consequence and a "price",
be it drugs or shopping shoes on a sundays

should it not be up to people themselves to gauge that risk?

The issue I have with heroin and meth isn't the harm it does to oneself, but the harm it does to others. The addictiveness of the two are ridiculously high and moderate usage is pretty much unheard of. I'm pushing it when it comes to my views on coke so it isn't solely just because they are both considered hard drugs but because they are both the most f****d up drugs out there.

91
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2011, 10:06 am

Lots of libertarians making their case here. For myself, no they should not be legal. Whatever personal freedom you cite, the social good you would derive from these things is far surpassed by the damage done. These drugs are not dangerous because they are illegal, they are illegal because they are dangerous.

_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

28 Sep 2011, 10:11 am

91 wrote:

that is far from the case with many illegal drugs though, granted there are some drugs that do a lot of permament harm very quickly.

heroin and meth are some of the worst offenders,

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

91
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2011, 10:14 am

Oodain wrote:

that is far from the case with many illegal drugs though

I am addressing the OP.

Oodain wrote:

granted there are some drugs that do a lot of permament harm very quickly.

heroin and meth are some of the worst offenders,

Then there is some good middle ground to be obtained. I should think that most people are in favor of making some substances utterly illegal, therefor I think we can throw out some of the more absolutist libertarian language that is doing the rounds in this thread. I hope where we differ in is regards to what the public has an interest in rendering illegal.

_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

28 Sep 2011, 10:47 am

91 wrote:

Oodain wrote:

that is far from the case with many illegal drugs though

I am addressing the OP.

Oodain wrote:

granted there are some drugs that do a lot of permament harm very quickly.

heroin and meth are some of the worst offenders,

the real problem is that a drug like heroin is opiates, just at another concentration.

meth on the other hand is a chemical alteration of an already powerfull drug, purely synthetic and that i can easily see being purely illegal.

the real issue here would be that one cannot completely outlaw heroin as a substance, only as a concentration, or one would use a system like today wtih varying classes of drugs (perhaps they are what needs revision)

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

91
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

28 Sep 2011, 11:10 am

^^^^

There is a fair amount of sense to what you are saying. As to how best enforce regulation, if improvements can be made, I am open to suggestion.

_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

28 Sep 2011, 11:14 am

Oodain wrote:

that is far from the case with many illegal drugs though, granted there are some drugs that do a lot of permament harm very quickly.

heroin and meth are some of the worst offenders,

It seems to me that you are walking a very fine line here.

If we accept that caffeine is at one end of the recreational drug spectrum and heroin and meth are at the other end, how do you make the case for where you draw your lines?

Further, how will therapeutic drugs fit into your schema? Do you justify differing treatment for therapeutic and recreational drugs? There are many, many therapeutic drugs that are significantly less harmful than many of the recreational drugs that are out there--but we continue to regulate their supply for other reasons.

The entire question is remarkably complex, and I find myself very strongly torn between my liberal attitudes toward personal behaviour, and my medical knowledge of consequence.

_________________
--James

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

28 Sep 2011, 11:35 am

visagrunt wrote:

Oodain wrote:

that is far from the case with many illegal drugs though, granted there are some drugs that do a lot of permament harm very quickly.

heroin and meth are some of the worst offenders,

that is kinda the point i am trying to make, it would be hell to justify any "special consideration"
both in a legal and a moral sense.

i am not sure i know excactly what would work best but i do know taht we cannot solve this issue with ideology alone
personally i would think people hould be able to make th choice for themselves but as many others point out it in itself carries a lot of trouble and without some sort of regulation would spell disaster for some people.

the harm a drug does is also very dependant on person and circumstance, not only "strenght", the only OD i have seen was on caffeine and he was rushed to the ICU at the local hospital

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

Page 3 of 7 [ 100 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

Jump to:

should hard drugs be legal? Post Reply New Topic

should hard drugs be legal?