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Do you support Free Trade ?

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visagrunt
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11 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm

Like democracy is to government, so is free trade to an economy. It's absolutely the worst way to run it--except for all the others.

Generally speaking, people left to their own devices will make trading deals that are in their best interests, and the more that they are left to their own devices, the greater that is true.

What government must do is to stand in the way of abusive practices that will tend to distort the market, exercising prudential supervision. But the establishment of barriers to protect economic activity that is being pursued on an artificially inflated basis is not prudent. If government wants to buffer transitions, then it should certainly provide income support and retraining to displaced workers--but maintaining unsustainable industry is not a preferable course.


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11 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm

JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.



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11 Oct 2011, 1:13 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.


Moral of story:

1. Avoid homelessness at all costs.

2. Don't rely on others.



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11 Oct 2011, 1:21 pm

JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.


Moral of story:

1. Avoid homelessness at all costs.

2. Don't rely on others.
1. The homeless doesn't just consist of people who brought it on themselves, but also the mentally ill who can't function in society.
2. Well that's really your only option in that predicament.

Moral of story:

1. Telling people to avoid homelessness at all costs is like telling a soldier in war not to die.
2. Self-reliance should always be a first resort, but sheer self-reliance with absolutely no dependence on others is a myth.



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 11 Oct 2011, 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

91
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11 Oct 2011, 1:24 pm

JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.


That fits the literal description of cold comfort.


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11 Oct 2011, 1:29 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
In principle I support free trade but certainly don't support any sort of "free trade agreement"


So basically you're against free trade in reality, but not in principle.

2+2=5



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11 Oct 2011, 1:33 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.


Moral of story:

1. Avoid homelessness at all costs.

2. Don't rely on others.
1. The homeless doesn't just consist of people who brought it on themselves, but also the mentally ill who can't function in society.
2. Well that's really your only option in that predicament.

Moral of story:

1. Telling people to avoid homelessness at all costs is like telling a soldier in war not to die.
2. Self-reliance should always be a first resort, but sheer self-reliance with absolutely no dependence on others is a myth.


There's always suicide.



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11 Oct 2011, 1:38 pm

91 wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.


That fits the literal description of cold comfort.


I guess I was a little too nice, then.

Should one find comfort in the life of a drifter or a dependent?

If that lifestyle is comfortable, then why leave it?



91
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11 Oct 2011, 1:46 pm

JWC wrote:
There's always suicide.


Disgusting sentiment.

For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. Truly I tell you, whatever you unto the least of my people, you do unto me.

JWC wrote:
Should one find comfort in the life of a drifter or a dependent?


I was in that situation once. It was only by the charity of both my government and my family that caused me to get through. Now I am capable of meeting my own needs. You could help them because it is necessary for them; or more realistically; because it could be you.

JWC wrote:
If that lifestyle is comfortable, then why leave it?


I fear your lack of humanity more than a few spongers. A couple of bums is the price you pay for knowing you life in a civilized country. Just like nut cases who scream in the streets; we know we still have freedom of speech when we can still hear them... they are canaries to our liberty and safety.


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Last edited by 91 on 11 Oct 2011, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JWC
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11 Oct 2011, 1:58 pm

91 wrote:
JWC wrote:
There's always suicide.


Disgusting sentiment.


Who says I was talking about the homeless?



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11 Oct 2011, 2:01 pm

91 wrote:
I fear your lack of humanity more than a few spongers. A couple of bums is the price you pay for knowing you life in a civilized country. Just like nut cases who scream in the streets; we know we still have freedom of speech when we can still hear them... they are canaries to our liberty and safety.


My success does not depend on their failure.



Or poor personal hygiene.



91
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11 Oct 2011, 2:01 pm

JWC wrote:
91 wrote:
JWC wrote:
There's always suicide.


Disgusting sentiment.


Who says I was talking about the homeless?


I am an aspie, if you are attempting to make an underlying subtle point... you will have to be more direct. You will also have to make a greater effort to make your statements easier to interpret.

JWC wrote:
My success does not depend on their failure.


But their future might depend on your charity. As someday yours might.


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11 Oct 2011, 2:11 pm

JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.


Moral of story:

1. Avoid homelessness at all costs.

2. Don't rely on others.
1. The homeless doesn't just consist of people who brought it on themselves, but also the mentally ill who can't function in society.
2. Well that's really your only option in that predicament.

Moral of story:

1. Telling people to avoid homelessness at all costs is like telling a soldier in war not to die.
2. Self-reliance should always be a first resort, but sheer self-reliance with absolutely no dependence on others is a myth.


There's always suicide.
Or mugging you. The Government's most basic bare bones role is the monopoly of force right? That's one less check and balance against corruption which is the same reason regulations and safety nets are necessary to some extent. And why do our taxes go towards the military, police, and courts? Because privatizing them exclusively would lead to corruption and to ensure every citizen is covered by them. Sounds a lot like the same rationale that justify safety nets and regulations right?



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 11 Oct 2011, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JWC
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11 Oct 2011, 2:11 pm

91 wrote:
I am an aspie, if you are attempting to make an underlying subtle point... you will have to be more direct. You will also have to make a greater effort to make your statements easier to interpret.


So am I. That's no excuse for not being able to follow context clues. If it wasn't the subject of the post, then the only other option is the individual the statement was directed at.

91 wrote:
JWC wrote:
My success does not depend on their failure.


But their future might depend on your charity. As someday yours might.

If your future depends on someone else, then is it really yours?



91
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11 Oct 2011, 2:15 pm

JWC wrote:
91 wrote:
I am an aspie, if you are attempting to make an underlying subtle point... you will have to be more direct. You will also have to make a greater effort to make your statements easier to interpret.


So am I. That's no excuse for not being able to follow context clues. If it wasn't the subject of the post, then the only other option is the individual the statement was directed at.


I will give you one last opportunity to clarify. Are you suggesting that a forum member kill themselves?

JWC wrote:
If your future depends on someone else, then is it really yours?


Of course; no man is an island. We all owe our success to one another in some way,


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And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.


AceOfSpades
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11 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

JWC wrote:
91 wrote:
I am an aspie, if you are attempting to make an underlying subtle point... you will have to be more direct. You will also have to make a greater effort to make your statements easier to interpret.


So am I. That's no excuse for not being able to follow context clues. If it wasn't the subject of the post, then the only other option is the individual the statement was directed at.
LMAO you're one to talk about having issues with putting things into context...

JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
JWC wrote:
In response, to your question about homelessness: it is an individual problem, to be solved by the individuals facing that scenario, not central planners.
A homeless person needs money in order to get a house, and a house is needed in order to get a job. How are they supposed to get out of this Catch 22? Well they could rely on their network of friends and family but if they don't have anyone that could support them then what now? Notice how these solutions to their predicament relies on others for them to work.


Moral of story:

1. Avoid homelessness at all costs.

2. Don't rely on others.
1. The homeless doesn't just consist of people who brought it on themselves, but also the mentally ill who can't function in society.
2. Well that's really your only option in that predicament.

Moral of story:

1. Telling people to avoid homelessness at all costs is like telling a soldier in war not to die.
2. Self-reliance should always be a first resort, but sheer self-reliance with absolutely no dependence on others is a myth.


There's always suicide.
This whole discussion between us is about homelessness, and yet you're saying "Who said I was talking about the homeless"? Sure there's the general principle about individuals handling their own problems rather than having a central planner handle them, but homelessness is the context we're putting that into.

91 wrote:
JWC wrote:
But their future might depend on your charity. As someday yours might.

If your future depends on someone else, then is it really yours?
Whether it is mutual or coerced, you are relying on someone else either way. Do you read Ayn Rand books or do you put your brain in the laundry along with them?



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 11 Oct 2011, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.