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the media legitimizing Palestinian terrorism?

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jc6chan
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21 Oct 2011, 2:28 pm

Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Maybe this would change if the Palestinians learned how to behave decently. Right now they are dedicated killers and death worshipers.


Shut it with your racist Bullsh*t. Anyone who says that all people of a group are a**holes just because it makes it easier for them to lie to themselves is a psychopath, and you, sir, pass with highest honours.

Besides, the Palestinians have shown in recent years that they do not intend to exterminate Israelis. Also, a group of people being dedicated killers isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds. Many groups of people or nations are "dedicated killers" during periods of time. There's a time for peace, and a time for war.



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21 Oct 2011, 2:31 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Maybe this would change if the Palestinians learned how to behave decently. Right now they are dedicated killers and death worshipers.


Shut it with your racist Bullsh*t. Anyone who says that all people of a group are a**holes just because it makes it easier for them to lie to themselves is a psychopath, and you, sir, pass with highest honours.

Besides, the Palestinians have shown in recent years that they do not intend to exterminate Israelis. Also, a group of people being dedicated killers isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds. Many groups of people or nations are "dedicated killers" during periods of time. There's a time for peace, and a time for war.


Then maybe they should kick out Hamas then.



jc6chan
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21 Oct 2011, 4:03 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Maybe this would change if the Palestinians learned how to behave decently. Right now they are dedicated killers and death worshipers.


Shut it with your racist Bullsh*t. Anyone who says that all people of a group are a**holes just because it makes it easier for them to lie to themselves is a psychopath, and you, sir, pass with highest honours.

Besides, the Palestinians have shown in recent years that they do not intend to exterminate Israelis. Also, a group of people being dedicated killers isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds. Many groups of people or nations are "dedicated killers" during periods of time. There's a time for peace, and a time for war.


Then maybe they should kick out Hamas then.

I'll have to admit that at one point in time, kicking Hamas out is the thing one would WANT to do. However, the thing is that Hamas has changed and they said they are willing to any peace deal that is reached between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. But the thing is that Hamas has always played a huge role in Palestinian politics, so even during the early 2000s when suicide bomb attacks was at its peak, saying "kick Hamas out" is not easily done. The situation is different from kicking Gaddafi out in Libya. The reason why is was easily done was because a large enough population in Libya wanted Gaddafi out of power. Of course, there are some Palestinians who want Hamas out of power but in this case it is different. In fact, I would say that the reason why Hamas seems more passive nowadays is because it wants to remain popular. When Israel controlled the Gaza Strip, resistance by attacking Israeli civilians was the popular thing to do. Now that the Palestinian people have seen the consequences of their terrorist attacks on Israel (the consequence being that Israel pretty much kicked their asses with modern warplanes) the Palestinians are not so much interested in attacks on civilians. And Hamas chose to "evolve and stay popular" rather than continue their terrorist activities and risk getting overthrown (or a prolonged civil war within Gaza).



Inuyasha
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21 Oct 2011, 4:10 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Maybe this would change if the Palestinians learned how to behave decently. Right now they are dedicated killers and death worshipers.


Shut it with your racist Bullsh*t. Anyone who says that all people of a group are a**holes just because it makes it easier for them to lie to themselves is a psychopath, and you, sir, pass with highest honours.

Besides, the Palestinians have shown in recent years that they do not intend to exterminate Israelis. Also, a group of people being dedicated killers isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds. Many groups of people or nations are "dedicated killers" during periods of time. There's a time for peace, and a time for war.


Then maybe they should kick out Hamas then.

I'll have to admit that at one point in time, kicking Hamas out is the thing one would WANT to do. However, the thing is that Hamas has changed and they said they are willing to any peace deal that is reached between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. But the thing is that Hamas has always played a huge role in Palestinian politics, so even during the early 2000s when suicide bomb attacks was at its peak, saying "kick Hamas out" is not easily done. The situation is different from kicking Gaddafi out in Libya. The reason why is was easily done was because a large enough population in Libya wanted Gaddafi out of power. Of course, there are some Palestinians who want Hamas out of power but in this case it is different. In fact, I would say that the reason why Hamas seems more passive nowadays is because it wants to remain popular. When Israel controlled the Gaza Strip, resistance by attacking Israeli civilians was the popular thing to do. Now that the Palestinian people have seen the consequences of their terrorist attacks on Israel (the consequence being that Israel pretty much kicked their asses with modern warplanes) the Palestinians are not so much interested in attacks on civilians. And Hamas chose to "evolve and stay popular" rather than continue their terrorist activities and risk getting overthrown (or a prolonged civil war within Gaza).


You're being naive if you think Hamas has changed at all, cause they really haven't.



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21 Oct 2011, 6:52 pm

jc6chan wrote:
So according to your logic, Hamas "won" the Gaza Strip after years of attacking the Israeli settlers and launching rockets into Israel proper (so not the occupied territories) and so they pretty much achieved a goal by attacking civilians, but they won. So you think Hamas rocket attacks are justified?


No. But their strategy worked, didn't it? I do not use terms like "justify" when it comes to war. I use terms like "win" and "lose".

Concepts like "justification" are only meaningful if morality is meaningful. In the real world force is what determines outcomes, not morality.

ruveyn



jc6chan
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21 Oct 2011, 9:39 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Maybe this would change if the Palestinians learned how to behave decently. Right now they are dedicated killers and death worshipers.


Shut it with your racist Bullsh*t. Anyone who says that all people of a group are a**holes just because it makes it easier for them to lie to themselves is a psychopath, and you, sir, pass with highest honours.

Besides, the Palestinians have shown in recent years that they do not intend to exterminate Israelis. Also, a group of people being dedicated killers isn't necessarily as bad as it sounds. Many groups of people or nations are "dedicated killers" during periods of time. There's a time for peace, and a time for war.


Then maybe they should kick out Hamas then.

I'll have to admit that at one point in time, kicking Hamas out is the thing one would WANT to do. However, the thing is that Hamas has changed and they said they are willing to any peace deal that is reached between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. But the thing is that Hamas has always played a huge role in Palestinian politics, so even during the early 2000s when suicide bomb attacks was at its peak, saying "kick Hamas out" is not easily done. The situation is different from kicking Gaddafi out in Libya. The reason why is was easily done was because a large enough population in Libya wanted Gaddafi out of power. Of course, there are some Palestinians who want Hamas out of power but in this case it is different. In fact, I would say that the reason why Hamas seems more passive nowadays is because it wants to remain popular. When Israel controlled the Gaza Strip, resistance by attacking Israeli civilians was the popular thing to do. Now that the Palestinian people have seen the consequences of their terrorist attacks on Israel (the consequence being that Israel pretty much kicked their asses with modern warplanes) the Palestinians are not so much interested in attacks on civilians. And Hamas chose to "evolve and stay popular" rather than continue their terrorist activities and risk getting overthrown (or a prolonged civil war within Gaza).


You're being naive if you think Hamas has changed at all, cause they really haven't.

Tell me, what has Hamas done AFTER Operation Cast Lead?
I can tell you one thing they have done. The have called on armed groups to stop firing rockets at Israel!
Ok, so maybe they are in this "ceasefire" and they still believe in terrorism under some circumstances to achieve their goals, but its not like they are trying to push towards the extermination of the Jews. I think Israel would rather have Hamas govern the Gaza Strip than the Salafists.



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22 Oct 2011, 3:47 am

jc6chan wrote:
Tell me, what has Hamas done AFTER Operation Cast Lead?
I can tell you one thing they have done. The have called on armed groups to stop firing rockets at Israel!
.


A temporary breathing spell. A tactic. Hamas has not changed its goal at all which is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew in the neighborhood.

ruveyn



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22 Oct 2011, 10:14 am

jc6chan wrote:
That does not excuse Israel from knowingly killing many civilians. If they had the knowledge that civilians were inside the hospitals and schools, they are responsible for their well-being.


Actually it does. Civilians can be killed under the condition that 1. they are not the targets and 2. their deaths are unavoidable. Collateral damage is not a war crime. However, if Hamas is indeed firing rockets from schools and other highly populated areas, then under the Geneva Convention, Hamas is to be held responsible, not Israel. The Geneva Convention actually has a clause against using civilians as human shields.

jc6chan wrote:
Why would they use white phosphorous to destroy rocket launchers?


White phosphorus is legal if the smoke is used for camouflage but it's use as a weapon is banned.



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22 Oct 2011, 1:30 pm

Jono wrote:

White phosphorus is legal if the smoke is used for camouflage but it's use as a weapon is banned.


Nonsense. White phosphorous and napalm are heat and fire weapons and are commonly used in combat. I understand that gas and biological weapons are out of bounds. That did not stop Hafaz Assad (when he was alive) from gassing Syrians and it did not stop Chemical Ali Saddam Husseins cousin from gassing Iraqis.

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jc6chan
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22 Oct 2011, 1:38 pm

Jono wrote:

Actually it does. Civilians can be killed under the condition that 1. they are not the targets and 2. their deaths are unavoidable. Collateral damage is not a war crime. However, if Hamas is indeed firing rockets from schools and other highly populated areas, then under the Geneva Convention, Hamas is to be held responsible, not Israel. The Geneva Convention actually has a clause against using civilians as human shields.

Tell that to NATO, and see if they even have the guts to fire at the Taliban when they are hiding behind women and children. Yes, they have killed women and children in bombing raids but the only reason is because they were in warplanes and don't want to know how much damage they are causing. Thats the truth about modern warfare. When you are on the ground, it seems unconscienable (I don't think I spelled the word correctly) to knowingly be killing civilians but when you are in a warplane, it can easily be done, but that doesn't make it right.


Jono wrote:
White phosphorus is legal if the smoke is used for camouflage but it's use as a weapon is banned.

Exactly, Israel used it as a weapon on a UN school with refugees in hiding.



jc6chan
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22 Oct 2011, 1:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:

A temporary breathing spell. A tactic. Hamas has not changed its goal at all which is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew in the neighborhood.

ruveyn

Yeah right. If they wanted to kill every Jew, they had the opportunity to easily kill Gilad Shalit but they didn't.



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22 Oct 2011, 2:41 pm

jc6chan wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

A temporary breathing spell. A tactic. Hamas has not changed its goal at all which is to destroy Israel and kill every Jew in the neighborhood.

ruveyn

Yeah right. If they wanted to kill every Jew, they had the opportunity to easily kill Gilad Shalit but they didn't.


That would have been bad tactics AND bad economics. They got a 1005 of their own back for only one Jew. The Isrealis paid cheep price since one Jew is worth at 10,000 Palestinians (going by quality, you understand).

If Hamas could, they would wipe Israel out and slaughter the Jewish population.

ruveyn



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22 Oct 2011, 2:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
since one Jew is worth at 10,000 Palestinians (going by quality, you understand).

ruveyn

Thats racist. You're accusing Hamas of anit-semitism and here you are...



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22 Oct 2011, 3:06 pm

jc6chan wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
since one Jew is worth at 10,000 Palestinians (going by quality, you understand).

ruveyn

Thats racist. You're accusing Hamas of anit-semitism and here you are...


In the original sense of the term, yes.

Hamas is a thuggish a criminal group of no good worthless people.

ruveyn



jc6chan
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22 Oct 2011, 3:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:
jc6chan wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
since one Jew is worth at 10,000 Palestinians (going by quality, you understand).

ruveyn

Thats racist. You're accusing Hamas of anit-semitism and here you are...


In the original sense of the term, yes.

Hamas is a thuggish a criminal group of no good worthless people.

ruveyn

Firstly, Hamas does not equal Palestinian. Secondly, I disagree with you saying they are worthless people. This dehumanizing needs to stop...on both sides.



ruveyn
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22 Oct 2011, 3:56 pm

jc6chan wrote:
Firstly, Hamas does not equal Palestinian. Secondly, I disagree with you saying they are worthless people. This dehumanizing needs to stop...on both sides.


Fine. Let them stop first.

ruveyn