Can one tell another he doesn't know God?

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LKL
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14 Nov 2011, 6:40 pm

Is anyone else here strongly reminded of the movie, "A Beautiful Mind," by the OP?

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14 Nov 2011, 6:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

Ragtime, you might actually have better luck if you were to try talking candidly and openly about your experience with religion.

No, I get the same treatment no matter how I say it. It's what I believe which so provokes.
The Bible predicted this. The Gospel is described in the Greek as "Skandalon", or "rock of offense" (rock that one trips over).
It is said straightforwardly in the New Testament that the Gospel is, itself, offensive to mankind, because mankind is sinful.
Notice that not even Jesus could preach the truth in a way that didn't offend (see Pharisees' reactions in Matt, Mark, Luke, John) -- so what chance have I?

You've sinned, and you need God to save you.

What did I say in those few words? The Gospel. Its central idea is impossible to convey without offense resulting.
Here's a challenge no one will take up: Convey the Gospel message of the New Testament in a non-offensive way.
He who can do that is smarter than God, so, ya know, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

You see, there isn't much point in arguing.

I choose Team Humanity and say that God is tyrant.
You choose Team God and say that humanity is sinful.

You might be a really nice person; I can be at times. The whole debate is absurd to me. This is because I'm willing to love you as a fellow human being and I don't care if you believe in God...but I don't like God.

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14 Nov 2011, 6:44 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

If your God is the same one that I used to believe in - the Creator of cancer and mosquitoes; if he's the same guy as the one in the Bible, then I hate him. My opinion is that it would take an evil being just to create this world. That's my opinion.

You're as free to like Him as I am to hate/not believe in Him. I don't mind.

I just don't buy the concept that there is an all-knowing all-powerful being that for some reason needs me to worship it.

I'm more willing to accept omnisicent and omnipotent before I buy into Him being omnibenevolent. But yes, that concept you mentioned is ridiculous to me, as well.

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blauSamstag
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14 Nov 2011, 6:51 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I just don't buy the concept that there is an all-knowing all-powerful being that for some reason needs me to worship it.

I'm more willing to accept omnisicent and omnipotent before I buy into Him being omnibenevolent. But yes, that concept you mentioned is ridiculous to me, as well.

Yeah, omnibenevolence does not appear to jibe with observable data.

There are systems of belief that would allow us to say that maybe God is a being that created our existence in much the same way that a seed falls from a tree, and that this being is not directly responsible for what happened afterward. But if you combine that with omnipotence or omniscience, that really makes the being look like sort of a jerk at best.

So i figure that our existence is the way it is because of blind physical forces, dumb luck, and human behavior. No other theory seems to have any observable results.

If you go adding a diety into that mix, the diety looks like not such a nice diety.

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14 Nov 2011, 7:00 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

...I just don't buy the concept that there is an all-knowing all-powerful being that for some reason needs me to worship it.

He doesn't want your worship, He want's your friendship.

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14 Nov 2011, 7:16 pm

shrox wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

...I just don't buy the concept that there is an all-knowing all-powerful being that for some reason needs me to worship it.

He doesn't want your worship, He want's your friendship.

Not according to Deuteronomy 6:

Quote:

13Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

15(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

16Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah. 13Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

15(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.

16Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Or Psalms 2:

Quote:

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Or Matthew 4:

Quote:

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

I mean, tell me if i'm wrong, but it seems like the bible is clear on this requirement for worship.

I don't worship, and can't fathom why something more powerful than i would care if i did.

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14 Nov 2011, 7:20 pm

All these Christian faiths must overall be held under a polytheistic meta-umbrella, when you consider they all seem to worship a different God

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14 Nov 2011, 7:23 pm

Vigilans wrote:

All these Christian faiths must overall be held under a polytheistic meta-umbrella, when you consider they all seem to worship a different God

Yeah, it's as though i have this friend Bob, and then one day I'm hanging out somewhere and mentioning Bob to a mutual friend, and some guy buts in and says "I know Bob, and I swear he's nothing like that"

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14 Nov 2011, 7:28 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

shrox wrote:

Ragtime, they don't like our Friend.

I can't dislike someone who I've never seen, heard or spoken to

You'll see Him one day.

I hope so. End of existence sounds unappealing. Not that I would be in a position to care, really. For some reason I suspect that the afterlife will go something like this:

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