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25 Nov 2011, 3:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
The only reason why Bin Laden was allowed to set up shop in Afghanistan was because he had sucked up to the Taliban leader, Mullah Omar. Now that Bin Laden is dead, so ended Omar's obligation to protect him as a guest (which is very important in Pashtun society). I think even a lunatic like him realizes that Al Qaeda are more trouble than their worth, and so it's highly unlikely that he'd ever risk America's wrath by welcoming them back if he or his cohorts ever regain power.
As for your charge that Obama is playing politics with the lives of our troops, let me answer that with a question - just how long are supposed to stay in a horrible situation that may never improve? If anything, Obama is saving lives by pulling our people out.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Sounds like a great deal for everyone in Afghanistan who happens to be a Pashtun male. There are far greater implications than the return of the Taliban to power if the United States botches its exit from Afghanistan.

@Inuyasha

There are no terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, good, we can mitigate against that somewhat from the air. A drone strategy combined with special ops raids in post-war Afghanistan is all but inevitable. If you want to go after training camps, redeploy to Yemen and Pakistan.


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25 Nov 2011, 10:47 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Ann Coulter's arguments (see her latest column) are currently winning me over


Fail


Ragtime, don't fall for the same con-job that Ann Coulter is falling for, Romney is Obamalite.


I actually used to believe that Romney is Obamalite. But remember that he thought of the health plan for his state before he saw the now-widespread national hate for the idea. What I am saying is that, I believe he, like any competent public representative, wants to at least basically conform to any clear, vast-majority public will -- and not openly flout the public, which would clearly hurt everyone involved including himself.
In other words, I am betting on the idea that Romney is not an die-hard ideologue, but rather a responsive-to-the-public leader. Every leader knows it is political suicide to attempt a national healthcare program which is anything like Obamacare. So why would he do it? I do not believe that reshaping the country in his views' image despite open public resistance is anywhere near the kind of deep-seated priority and conviction that it is for Obama.

Also, please don't be "anti-Romney" as your primary position -- can you see that such is not logical? It assumes that Romney is by definition inferior to every other GOP candidate -- and I think we both know that is not true.

Let me be clear, if I haven't been: I do not like Romney. The deal is, I don't like the other candidates' chances any more than Romney's. But ya, it still all boils down to one question: Would Romney willingly commit political suicide, which means an Obamacare-like move, or is he smarter than that? I'll be glad to do a Ronald Reagan write-in vote, but I don't see where that will get us. Romney is infinitely inferior to Reagan, and, quite honestly, ya, I think Romney is a bit creepy. But my point is the GOP candidates ALL have their equivalent problems. So being anti-Romney out of the gate (i.e. not equally considering all the GOP candidates) makes no sense.

Hasn't Romney clearly said, about healthcare, "Okay -- I get it! America doesn't want it! Message received! Loud and clear!"


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25 Nov 2011, 12:31 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Ron has pretty plainly said he thinks people are overtaxed and earmarks are a way of bringing their already appropriated money back to the district.


But, a true Libertarian would not be in favor of the government spending for anything useful to anyone. Or, am I missing something?


He'd rather his constituent's tax money be sent back home to their district than sent over Afghanistan or the pocket books of some corporate executive.


:roll:

In case Ron Paul hadn't noticed, we were attacked on 9/11 and the attackers were based in Afghanistan, currently they've been denied a base of operations there. They would get that base back if we pull out before the Afghans can defend themselves, this isn't rocket science. Furthermore, Ron Paul has been doing this even before we went into Afghanistan.



Sounds like you need a history lesson. The hijackers, who were of Saudi descent, were based here in the US in Florida and planned the attacks in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. There is nothing special about Afghanistan. We were not attacked by Afghanistan and the Taliban government, as despicable as it was, did not a threat to anyone besides it's own people. The Afghan people don't want us in Afghanistan and it doesn't make us any safer at all. All we're doing over there is wasting money, creating new enemies, and putting our troops lives in danger.

And yea, we've been sending our money out of this country and into the hands of the corporate elite long before 9/11, this is true. Our government has been out of control for a long time.


Sarcasm: Yes, the Afghan people want to be living under the brutality of the Taliban... :roll:

Seriously, if you believe that I've got a bridge to sell you on Saturn.

Second, the fact that the attackers were of Saudi decent is irrelevant, their loyalty was with a group out of Afghanistan, not the Saudi Government.

Third, the Afghan people are scared of cooperating with us because they no we're going to leave no matter what the situation is on the ground by a certain date, cause Obama is playing politics with the lives of our troops and the lives of the Afghan People.

Is it Ron Paul is such an ideologue that he's okay with letting mass murder take place because he is hell bent on pulling our people out, or is he just like Obama and wants to score some cheap political points and he doesn't care if it costs people (including our service men and women) their lives. Which is it?

LKL wrote:
The only reason to go into Afghanistan was to kill Bin Laden, who is now conveniently dead.


The other mission is to make sure Al Qaeda can't use Afghanistan as a base of operations, which they will be able to if we leave before the Afghan people can defend themselves.


A lot of them do prefer the Taliban to US occupation and the corrupt Hamed Karzai government actually but that's not really pertinent to the overriding fact that they don't want us there period. Our war is not with the Taliban anyways and any realistic exit strategy would involve a peace deal with them. Afghanistan will never be a western liberal democracy and we'll be waiting for eternity if that's what we're really fighting for. I'm pretty sure most people in this country wouldn't of supported a nation building adventure in Afghanistan if that was how it was sold to them.

There is no Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and there is no such thing as a "base of operations". As a I said, the attacks of 9/11 were planned in Germany and Florida. It was not planned or carried out by the Afghan people in any sense. The only relevance Afghanistan had was because Osama Bin Laden was there as a guest of the Taliban. Osama was and still is a hero to a lot of the Muslim world because of his contribution to the war against the Soviets in the 80s. What side did we support and provide weapons for in the conflict again? Osama left Afghanistan in 2001 and is now dead, our business is done there.



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25 Nov 2011, 12:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Ron has pretty plainly said he thinks people are overtaxed and earmarks are a way of bringing their already appropriated money back to the district.


But, a true Libertarian would not be in favor of the government spending for anything useful to anyone. Or, am I missing something?


He'd rather his constituent's tax money be sent back home to their district than sent over Afghanistan or the pocket books of some corporate executive.


:roll:

In case Ron Paul hadn't noticed, we were attacked on 9/11 and the attackers were based in Afghanistan, currently they've been denied a base of operations there. They would get that base back if we pull out before the Afghans can defend themselves, this isn't rocket science. Furthermore, Ron Paul has been doing this even before we went into Afghanistan.


If only we could deny the American oligarchy a base of operations.
The US is responsible directly and indirectly for more terrorism of greater magnitude than any of it's enemies, although to be fair the reason is solely due to the fact that they have the resources to do so, any political entity in that position would do the same.. human nature.
The sad part is due to misdirection, propaganda and coverups the US citizenry often rabidly support their own state terrorism, or just as often remain blissfully ignorant or uncaring.



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25 Nov 2011, 1:09 pm

Dyed-in-the-wool Liberal though I may be, I have to say I have a newfound respect for Gingrich.

Eschewing the simple soundbite directed at the lowest common denominator of primary voters, he has--at least on this issue--presented a considered policy approach. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but far more honest than any candidate who pretends that a "kick-'em-all-out" approach to illegal immigration will have any prospect of success.


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25 Nov 2011, 3:36 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Dyed-in-the-wool Liberal though I may be, I have to say I have a newfound respect for Gingrich.

Eschewing the simple soundbite directed at the lowest common denominator of primary voters, he has--at least on this issue--presented a considered policy approach. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but far more honest than any candidate who pretends that a "kick-'em-all-out" approach to illegal immigration will have any prospect of success.


Yes. It's easy to say "kick 'em all out," but just saying it, and actually being able to do it, are two very different things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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30 Nov 2011, 11:27 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Dyed-in-the-wool Liberal though I may be, I have to say I have a newfound respect for Gingrich.

Eschewing the simple soundbite directed at the lowest common denominator of primary voters, he has--at least on this issue--presented a considered policy approach. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but far more honest than any candidate who pretends that a "kick-'em-all-out" approach to illegal immigration will have any prospect of success.


Yes. It's easy to say "kick 'em all out," but just saying it, and actually being able to do it, are two very different things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It's cause Gingrich actually wants to solve the problem rather than just play politics like Romney whom will say anything to get elected.



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30 Nov 2011, 12:15 pm

At the risk of sounding simple I ask: what else is the politician Bachmann going to play?

ruveyn



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30 Nov 2011, 2:09 pm

ruveyn wrote:
At the risk of sounding simple I ask: what else is the politician Bachmann going to play?

ruveyn


It's almost like she's either trying to be Romney's VP or become relevant in this primary, and I don't think she's going to accomplish the latter at this point.



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30 Nov 2011, 5:01 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
At the risk of sounding simple I ask: what else is the politician Bachmann going to play?

ruveyn


It's almost like she's either trying to be Romney's VP or become relevant in this primary, and I don't think she's going to accomplish the latter at this point.


She's looking for relevance to boost her sagging numbers, plain and simple. People realizing just how batshit crazy she is tended to do that to her standing in the polls.
And you're right - her campaign is dead.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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30 Nov 2011, 8:00 pm

[img][800:819]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MX78pKOOXnw/Tj_5dTKmPYI/AAAAAAAAElw/twGY17crbco/s1600/Michele-Bachmann-Quotes-Free-Wallpaper-2.jpg[/img]


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01 Dec 2011, 12:15 am

@ Vigilans

I think that's kinda insulting Sarah Palin, putting mildly. Even Jon Stewart has pointed out that it looks like Sarah Palin isn't crazy and that the media really was on a witch hunt.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/tv-in-nation ... rage-video



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01 Dec 2011, 12:36 am

Inuyasha wrote:
@ Vigilans

I think that's kinda insulting Sarah Palin, putting mildly. Even Jon Stewart has pointed out that it looks like Sarah Palin isn't crazy and that the media really was on a witch hunt.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/tv-in-nation ... rage-video


Regardless, she still subscribes to the same kind of insane end times theology that the likes of Bachmann and Perry do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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01 Dec 2011, 12:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
@ Vigilans

I think that's kinda insulting Sarah Palin, putting mildly. Even Jon Stewart has pointed out that it looks like Sarah Palin isn't crazy and that the media really was on a witch hunt.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/tv-in-nation ... rage-video


Regardless, she still subscribes to the same kind of insane end times theology that the likes of Bachmann and Perry do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Kraichgauer, if that were the case, why hasn't she endorsed either of them? Possibly cause she thinks that they might have a screw loose.



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01 Dec 2011, 1:10 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
@ Vigilans

I think that's kinda insulting Sarah Palin, putting mildly. Even Jon Stewart has pointed out that it looks like Sarah Palin isn't crazy and that the media really was on a witch hunt.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/tv-in-nation ... rage-video


Regardless, she still subscribes to the same kind of insane end times theology that the likes of Bachmann and Perry do.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Kraichgauer, if that were the case, why hasn't she endorsed either of them? Possibly cause she thinks that they might have a screw loose.


Michele Bachmann used to be a Lutheran (Wisconsin Synod), and even if that were still the case, I'd never vote for that crazy herodan.
Palin's still an evangelical who buys into all that rapture crap, even if she's not endorsing either of those loons.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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01 Dec 2011, 7:27 am

Inuyasha wrote:
@ Vigilans

I think that's kinda insulting Sarah Palin, putting mildly.


Let me check and see if caring is on my schedule...


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You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do