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Republicans succeed in ploy to increase unsafe abortions

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Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2012, 4:20 am

puddingmouse wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.


I never said the government was obliged to give out free contraception. I just said that it was in the government's best interests to give out free contraception.


Agreed, 100%.
Republicans see things otherwise these days, because of the influence of the religious right, which has come to the absurd conclusion that contraception is the same as having an abortion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LKL
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21 Jan 2012, 4:30 am

like the new avatar, puddingmouse.



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21 Jan 2012, 4:49 am

LKL wrote:
like the new avatar, puddingmouse.


Thanks.

I needed something cute, disturbing and surreal all at the same time.

Back to the topic: I don't even think it's just the religious right that believes women need to be punished for having sex. I know people on the left, who oppose abortion, who I suspect have that attitude subconsciously (it's particularly common with left-wing Catholics who stay in the Church). I suspect that attitude is the root of most, if not all, opposition to abortion, actually. The 'sanctity of life' or 'rights of the unborn' stuff is just a gloss to cover the misogyny. There's a nice bit of cynicism for you.

I know how paranoid that sounds, btw.


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Raptor
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21 Jan 2012, 6:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.


I never said the government was obliged to give out free contraception. I just said that it was in the government's best interests to give out free contraception.


Agreed, 100%.
Republicans see things otherwise these days, because of the influence of the religious right, which has come to the absurd conclusion that contraception is the same as having an abortion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


No, my point is that people can screw until their heart's content with or without contraceptives BUT they are responsible for thier actions and the associated costs.



Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2012, 2:42 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.


I never said the government was obliged to give out free contraception. I just said that it was in the government's best interests to give out free contraception.


Agreed, 100%.
Republicans see things otherwise these days, because of the influence of the religious right, which has come to the absurd conclusion that contraception is the same as having an abortion.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


No, my point is that people can screw until their heart's content with or without contraceptives BUT they are responsible for thier actions and the associated costs.


That may be your point of view, but to many Republicans with their brains soaked in fundamentalist religiosity, they have an absurdest perception of everything from rubbers, to the pill.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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21 Jan 2012, 2:46 pm

I am reminded of the time the Pope said that condoms held spread AIDS.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2012, 2:53 pm

abacacus wrote:
I am reminded of the time the Pope said that condoms held spread AIDS.


And that is batshit crazy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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21 Jan 2012, 11:47 pm

Raptor wrote:

Quote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.

i absolutely disagree with this. contaceptives should be free and access to them should be non restricted. otherwise it discriminates against people of lower socio economic status who might not be able to afford to pay for that stuff because by the gods is it expensive and people of colour who might be more likely to belong to a group of lower socioeconomic status and undocumented immigrants who would have to show ID at the counter to prove their age if it were restricted and not having an ID card they would have issues with that. and i think it should be on the shelves. that way younger people have access to it and so do undocumented people. before you all go ape just know that young people are having sex anyway. if you think they dont need this stuff then you are in denial. also if contraception is not available freely then people will either be stuck carrying a foetus they are not able to abort because of the cost or legallity or they will procure a backroom abortion or through an alternate unsafe methods. case in point:
http://estheradorno.com/2012/01/15/nati ... -raped-me/
and to what extent this is a problem:
http://feministing.com/2012/01/19/globa ... re-unsafe/
this is why contraception and abortion should both be free and on demand otherwise it is just punishing women and trans-dudes for having sex.
also it should be noted that attacks on reproductive rights do come from both republicans and democrats.



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22 Jan 2012, 1:17 am

VMSmith wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Quote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.

i absolutely disagree with this. contaceptives should be free and access to them should be non restricted. otherwise it discriminates against people of lower socio economic status who might not be able to afford to pay for that stuff because by the gods is it expensive and people of colour who might be more likely to belong to a group of lower socioeconomic status and undocumented immigrants who would have to show ID at the counter to prove their age if it were restricted and not having an ID card they would have issues with that. and i think it should be on the shelves. that way younger people have access to it and so do undocumented people. before you all go ape just know that young people are having sex anyway. if you think they dont need this stuff then you are in denial. also if contraception is not available freely then people will either be stuck carrying a foetus they are not able to abort because of the cost or legallity or they will procure a backroom abortion or through an alternate unsafe methods. case in point:
http://estheradorno.com/2012/01/15/nati ... -raped-me/
and to what extent this is a problem:
http://feministing.com/2012/01/19/globa ... re-unsafe/
this is why contraception and abortion should both be free and on demand otherwise it is just punishing women and trans-dudes for having sex.
also it should be noted that attacks on reproductive rights do come from both republicans and democrats.


Nothing is "free" because someone has to pay for it somewhere.
Again, I don’t care who buys contraceptives or from where including from vending machines as long as the user is paying for them and not the taxpayer.
I’m on the pro-life side of the abortion issue and I’m going to stay on that side for life. Although I’m not a zealot about it I certainly will never condone them being a “free” service either.



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22 Jan 2012, 1:26 am

Raptor wrote:
VMSmith wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Quote:
The government shouldn't and doesn't deny anyone's access to contraceptives. They are free to go buy all the contraceptives they want at their own expense.
If you wanna play then you gotta pay.

i absolutely disagree with this. contaceptives should be free and access to them should be non restricted. otherwise it discriminates against people of lower socio economic status who might not be able to afford to pay for that stuff because by the gods is it expensive and people of colour who might be more likely to belong to a group of lower socioeconomic status and undocumented immigrants who would have to show ID at the counter to prove their age if it were restricted and not having an ID card they would have issues with that. and i think it should be on the shelves. that way younger people have access to it and so do undocumented people. before you all go ape just know that young people are having sex anyway. if you think they dont need this stuff then you are in denial. also if contraception is not available freely then people will either be stuck carrying a foetus they are not able to abort because of the cost or legallity or they will procure a backroom abortion or through an alternate unsafe methods. case in point:
http://estheradorno.com/2012/01/15/nati ... -raped-me/
and to what extent this is a problem:
http://feministing.com/2012/01/19/globa ... re-unsafe/
this is why contraception and abortion should both be free and on demand otherwise it is just punishing women and trans-dudes for having sex.
also it should be noted that attacks on reproductive rights do come from both republicans and democrats.


Nothing is "free" because someone has to pay for it somewhere.
Again, I don’t care who buys contraceptives or from where including from vending machines as long as the user is paying for them and not the taxpayer.
I’m on the pro-life side of the abortion issue and I’m going to stay on that side for life. Although I’m not a zealot about it I certainly will never condone them being a “free” service either.


Believe it or not, I tend to be more pro-life, but the fact remains, the pro-life movement has been so highjacked by "zealots" that I can't support the movement. In fact, I find myself holding them in contempt, and agreeing more and more with the pro-choice people, because at least they're sane!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Jan 2012, 1:33 am

The only people getting free contraceptives should be those who can prove they can't afford them.

Same as abortions, can't afford the kid or the abortion (or in cases of rape, incest, etc) the state should spring for it.

HOWEVER, if you can afford the kid and *not* the abortion and just don't want the kid, suck it up. Shoulda used a condom.


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Kraichgauer
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22 Jan 2012, 1:36 am

abacacus wrote:
The only people getting free contraceptives should be those who can prove they can't afford them.

Same as abortions, can't afford the kid or the abortion (or in cases of rape, incest, etc) the state should spring for it.

HOWEVER, if you can afford the kid and *not* the abortion and just don't want the kid, suck it up. Shoulda used a condom.


A society that actually lives by the morals it teaches should be willing to help care for that unplanned for child, if the parents (or remaining parent) isn't able to provide care financially.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Jan 2012, 2:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
A society that actually lives by the morals it teaches should be willing to help care for that unplanned for child, if the parents (or remaining parent) isn't able to provide care financially.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You would make us all slaves to stupidity and lack of planing? That is unjust.

Why should I pay a cent for something I had nothing to do with? Let each and every one bear the consequences of his own action or inaction. That is just. It is just not merciful.

ruveyn



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22 Jan 2012, 2:06 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
A society that actually lives by the morals it teaches should be willing to help care for that unplanned for child, if the parents (or remaining parent) isn't able to provide care financially.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You would make us all slaves to stupidity and lack of planing? That is unjust.

Why should I pay a cent for something I had nothing to do with? Let each and every one bear the consequences of his own action or inaction. That is just. It is just not merciful.

ruveyn


Because it's in the best interest of our society not to let more and more people slip into a marginalized underclass - which I admit is happening more and more. And if something isn't done about it, we'll all pay as we're sucked into a black hole of despair and inescapable poverty expanding throughout the nation.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Jan 2012, 2:06 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
A society that actually lives by the morals it teaches should be willing to help care for that unplanned for child, if the parents (or remaining parent) isn't able to provide care financially.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You would make us all slaves to stupidity and lack of planing? That is unjust.

Why should I pay a cent for something I had nothing to do with? Let each and every one bear the consequences of his own action or inaction. That is just. It is just not merciful.

ruveyn


Let's see how the neglected poor make their own justice when they are deprived of it to the point of starvation and humiliation.


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22 Jan 2012, 2:24 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
abacacus wrote:
The only people getting free contraceptives should be those who can prove they can't afford them.

Same as abortions, can't afford the kid or the abortion (or in cases of rape, incest, etc) the state should spring for it.

HOWEVER, if you can afford the kid and *not* the abortion and just don't want the kid, suck it up. Shoulda used a condom.


A society that actually lives by the morals it teaches should be willing to help care for that unplanned for child, if the parents (or remaining parent) isn't able to provide care financially.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You just don’t get it do you.
:roll:
Just because someone has the right to obtain services (abortions) and products (contraceptives) does not mean that they are entitled to have them provided free of charge.
Same goes for general healthcare, new tires, utilities, gasoline, etc…..