What is the ultimate goal of the multicultural movement?

Post Reply New Topic

I find most of your arguments irrational, because they're based in fear. Xenophobic fear:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

If multiculturalism sucks, why is Toronto the s**t? And if multiculturalism is hostile to cultures, why do we have awesome-sauce enclaves of culturally oriented areas that preserve their own language, culture, and traditions, alongside other ones? And if it's hostile to economies, why have North America and Canada been able to construct their economies through centuries of continuous immigration?

And because you haven't experienced multiculturalism, I'll bet you're all picky eaters, turned off by the smell, taste, and description of new foods and spices. The Toronto experience is that most people have learned to appreciate the deliciousness of all sorts of restaurants . . . they've bought cookbooks to experiment with different styles of cooking, and they've been able to acquire the basic and specific ingredients required to execute them at local grocery stores. And yes, I also mean this all metaphorically.

In elementary school, we colour in photos of kids in different outfits and skintones holding hands around the world. They are lovely. We use all of the colours, every culturally appropriated Halloween costume is represented.

I accuse y'all of being closed minded and irrational. Try to avoid making arguments based on xenophobia along with eugenics and racism . . . I don't think you'll have many arguments left.

It's not. I found it to be a city with lots to do but without much of a character of its own. I found it to be rather sterile and soulless. I was only there for about two weeks or so, but I saw quite a lot of the city. I was rarely impressed with the food (much of it was below-average, with only a few places being any good) and it seemed to have a coffee culture. Also, it's pretty expensive there and there did seem to be an undercurrent of people demanding tips without having done anything to earn them.



It's not like that here. Up here, the immigrant communities live in enclaves and they totally dominate one area or the other. It really is like stepping into a foreign land. There isn't the easygoing melting-pot structure you might see in North America - it's quite polarised in some towns up here (Blackburn, Burnley, Bradford, Keighley, Oldham). Parts of England look not dissimilar to Northern Ireland in that sense. They're very deprived, run-down, with lots of crime.



For a start, mass immigration has always been central to the survival of the U.S. and Canada. This hasn't been the case in Europe. The political elites in quite a few European countries have sought mass immigration without consulting - and, in fact, repeatedly completely ignoring for decades - the will of the settled population. They have basically just brought people in from former colonies like Pakistan - often from tribal areas, where hardline Islam reigns - and have just stuck them here. They then largely live in ghettos in inner cities, away from the general populace. Immigrant populations often move into areas en masse, and the locals - who might have been there for generations - feel forced out and often move. It's not like there is a general rubbing together up here. I'm told that in the south of England it's quite a lot different but they don't have the social problems we have.



Quite the opposite - I'm a massive fan of foreign cuisines, and travel frequently. I prefer the company of foreigners to my own people. I just don't want literally millions arriving in my country en masse as they have been doing. It's a recipe for social unrest and division - but I suppose that's how parts of the left like it.

Last edited by Tequila on 18 Mar 2012, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You spent two weeks in Toronto and you know everything about it? I prefer Montreal, but Toronto is definitely not a sterile or soulless city. Additionally nothing you brought up (food? prices? sterility?) against Toronto have anything to do with multiculturalism

I just found it didn't have a character about it, and I pin that on multiculturalism. It felt as though people from all over the world were simply plonked in this city and they have a sort of thin veneer called "Canadianness" that they stick on it.

I have been to Toronto several times and I enjoyed it. Someone once said Toronto is like New York City run by the Swiss.

ruveyn

Perhaps you should live there before coming to any conclusions about it. I doubt you would know what "Canadian-ness" even is

No ta.

Then it may be best to not speak as if you have some expertise

I'm not an expert, just saying what I saw. There was enough to do, but I was bored of the place.

Toronto is still a very new city. Perhaps it will bed down in a couple of hundred years.

This conversation is really much more specific than we are making it sound. Who cares about East Asian immigrants? Who cares about Hindu immigrants? Who cares about Sikh immigrants? Who cares about white immigrants from other countries?

Hardly anyone complains about those groups. You barely even hear about them except in a positive light, like if it's Diwali or something.

People who rant about "the failure of multiculturalism" are always talking about Muslims from the Middle East and Africa. They shouldn't be saying "multiculturalism has failed", they should be saying "I'm scared of Muslims". Well, I'm a little scared of them too. But what has multiculturalism got to do with it? There's only one culture that people don't like.

And South Asia.

I know Chinese fellas who live in Canada - salt of the Earth. Similarly, I know Poles and others that live in the UK. Also generally OK people (though I disagree with the policy that brought them here). I spoke with some Hindus today and they are similarly a smashing bunch. Some Muslims are fantastic too. But there is a serious problem in Muslim communities that just doesn't exist in most of the other immigrant communities.

That problem is called Islam

I'm glad you said it.

I suppose someone might as well post it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y7hm6ty5eo[/youtube]

I have seen everything! A non-boring Swiss person. And he is right on the mark.

ruveyn

Some would say Canada has become defined by its multiculturalism. Canada is, officially, and on an individual level, proud of its diversity. The different groups that become part of Canada all contribute to defining what 'Canadian' means. So, for example, many of Canada's most famous authors were born in other countries, but settled in Canada to work on their craft while maintaining their roots. And they've won Booker prizes for their efforts, i.e., officially they wrote the best English books of that year in the Commonwealth. You can't take authors like Salman Rushdie or Michael Ondaatje and say that because of their race they don't qualify as British or Canadian.

Nationality has to be defined along some code that applies to everyone, and to be blunt, citizenship/residency works fairly well for the time being. Far better than race, religion, culture etc., because no countries are homogeneous in this respect or should aspire to be. Immigration is a legal process. If you want to make the standards for who can become a citizen more stringent to exclude foreigners, you run the danger of some native residents not qualifying . . . human capabilities are prettymuch the same everywhere, so if people are determined to move to a country they will rise to the standards and do so.

Have you noticed that the countries in the world known for being s**tholes are all exaggerated versions of one thing? e.g, ultra religious regimes (like the ultra-christian southern US or Uganda), the Stalinist USSR, Nazi Germany, Sharia Law Afganistan, Kmer Rouge era Cambodia . . . if a few different conflicting elements within a society can come to terms with eachother, it creates more roaming room for everyone. Multiculturalism in Toronto either caused or came with awesome amounts of tolerance that have fueled its vibrant LGBT, drug, bad-ass political, hippie, Muslim, Hindu, anime, whatver cultures. It's just a lovely and accepting environment rather than a poisonous and intolerant one. Acceptance/tolerance is healthier than fear/intolerance.

BTW Islamophobia is right up there with Anti-Semitism, homophobia, racism, xenophobia, resist the urge to be a bigot, use real, rational arguments.