Don't you think Ted Haggard was stupid

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I did, in one of the future responses. I type too slow sometimes.



Okay while it isn't exactly relevent, lets look at Matt 19. Jesus was asked whether or not it is okay to divorce a woman and give her a certificate of divorce. He said no. Then he was confronted with the fact that Moses' law allowed it. His response was that it only allowed it "because of the hardness of your hearts" while from the beginning it wasn't so.

Now, APPLY IT TO SLAVERY AND WIFE BEATING. May be these things were also allowed "because of the hardness of people's hearts". Right now, in our cultural settings, our hearts are no longer "hardened" in that respect, so right now we have no reason to do it.

I can see we have an irreconcilable disagreement that isn't going to be resolved, so continuing this discussion is pointless, I guess.

There are plenty of things that we enjoy that aren't good for us. For instance, most of the junk food tastes good. So then you can ask why did God made junk food unhealthy.



NO SINGLE PERSON ON EARTH is there to decide what God should or shouldn't do. So there is no discremination here.



Here you go, and you are straight. So if you are refraining yourself from being with prostitutes (which I believe you are since you condemned sex without love) then you are being just as "unfair" to yourself as Christians are unfair towards gays.

But you missed one more point. That thing that you were "waiting for me to say all alone" is what bible teaches anyway. Jesus condemned religious authorities of his day and said that kingdom is within you. So he wasn't too far off after all.

This is getting ridiculous. Junk food is completely man-made. God did not make it - if anything, he only made the ingredients that go into it.


How can such a totalitarian God be called loving or benevolent?


I'm not being unfair to myself since I will try to get love and no one else will prevent me from doing so - I just doubt I will have any long-term success.

thank you, i forgot you are the spokesperson for god how could i forget

Yah, and this is no different from what I was saying about other kinds of perversions (such as polygamy) not working out because they aren't accepted by today's society. So, thus far, homosexuality and polygamy are even.



And there are plenty of cases of polygamy that DO work. Both the argument about polygamy not working and homosexuality not working is statistical one, again so far the two are even.



That goes towards different kind of immorality, such as judging, or hypocricy (being together just to "look good"). Both of the two are preached agianst in the bible ALONE WITH homosexuality. BOTTOM LINE: sin is what causes things not to work out, and homosexuality is one example of a sin.



Now lets slow down a little. In what way does prostitution harm society? Well, it causes moral decline. Now please define for me what IS moral decline? If you stick to moral relativism, there is no such thing since everyone is good in their own eyes. So in order to make SOLID argument that anything, including prostitution, causes moral decline, you have to go back to the bible. And if you do, then yes there are PLENTY of ways gays hurt the society -- they draw everyone who watches them away from the bible.



Okay, by revolution I mean on individual bases. The bible says "slave obey your master" in SINGULAR form. In other words "be humble where you are". If you happened to be slave, be content with it. If you happened to be master, DON"T abuse your slaves.



http://www.therefinersfire.org/ibp.htm

You do realize, of course, that Christians have been pointing to current events as a harbinger of the End Times for a very long time now? In a Religious Studies class I took at university, the professor showed us an essay that "proved" Martin Luther, who was at the time still alive, was the Antichrist. And a number of churches, over the last 200 years, have been foudned on the notion that the End Times were here. The Jehovah's Witnesses (founded in the 1870's) and the Seventh Day Adventists (established 1863), to name two.

Hmm... I must have missed it.

(reads)

Nope. Still can't find it.




Care to explain that one in English? Without resorting to quoting scripture? I think it was Robert A. Heinlein who said that a person can use the Bible to justify any viewpoint.

Even among things that God made there are things that are unhealthy. For instance, foods forbidden by biblical dietary laws are less healthy than foods that are allowed to eat. And there is a good reason for it. An animal eats plenty of plants and therefore it accumulates toxic elements from a lot of the plants. Thus, an animal that eats other animals are less healthy than animal that eats plants. Now, according to dietary laws, you are allowed to eat animal that eats plants but NOT animal that eats other animals. So this pretty much meshes with biology.

Now closer to point:

1. Does pork taste good? YES

2. Does bible allow eating of pork? NO

3. Is it healthy to eat pork? NO

So here is at least one example where bible, rather than your taste, is more telling.



If he weren't loving, he won't have created us on the first place. Now if you create something you can create it however you want, so he doesn't owe his creation anythihng. BUT despite that, he still offers a FREE GIFT of forgiveness to ANYONE who would seek it. Now, how many governments do you know that would offer free release from jail for all criminals as long as they sincerely seek forgiveness? That sounds pretty loving to me.



You are unfair to yourself because you go through all this trouble finding love instead of going to prostitute which is a lot simpler.

Personally, I think that's a *good* thing.



Notice that the Bible doesn't condemn slavery. In fact, it tacitly condones it. And you expect me to respect a moral code that allows it??? You must be joking.

1. You give way too much credit to the Bible. Certain things that exist in the Bible also exist in other religious and secular moral codes.
2. Prostitution can cause decline because it can ruin relationships which can ruin people's happiness. Also, it must be degrading for the prostitute to perform such a service.
3. Homosexuality does not draw anyone who watches them away from the Bible. That's unsubstantiated religious extremism. There are gay Christians and Christian gay sympathizers out there who worship the Bible as much as you who simply take a different stance than you.


Those Israel prophecies are likely occuring because Jews are intentionally trying to fulfill them, which does not prove that the prophecies would have occured had they not been written in the Bible and other religious documents. Didn't the Jews return to Israel and make it prosperous again specifically because of religious teachings?


Pork is healthy compared to many other foods. It's a source for nutrients such as protein.


You could use the same argument for any dictator. If the dictator weren't loving, he wouldn't allow people who follow his rules to live. After all, all who follow his rules get a free gift. But how loving is it for the dictator to imprison or kill those who disagree with him? All civilized human beings agree that that is totalitarian and unjust. Yet many of them just accept it when God supposedly does the same thing and condemns all who disagree with him or do not accept him to Hell.


I don't necessarily want a prostitute. Prostitutes are likely to contract diseases. Also, I don't want to have sex just for the sake of having sex, which is what people who go to prostitutes do. If I just want pleasure, I can get that by looking at porn.

Last edited by Dart on 07 Nov 2006, 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

theres no arguing with someone who thinks god has shown him the way. just drop it, if you knew anything about god roman, you would know that he doesnt use men to speak for him, jesus wasnt concived by men. but rather from god. so your bible written by men means nothing. god is about love. and nothing more

Thats why you have to stick to the Bible AS OPPOSED TO men's interpretation of it. You don't know whether OTHER MEN are twisting bible or not, since you can't read their mind. But if YOU read bible for yourself, then yah you can examine your own thinking process all you want. Thats one reason why Jesus discouraged following religious leaders but encouraged reading the bible for yourself.

Right now it is getting way beyond mere coincident. Take microchip implant. They had to study human body in order to see where could they insert it in order for it to be adequately powered by blood flow. It turns out that the two locations are RIGHT HAND and FOREHEAD. These are the places with largest blood flow, and it has to be right hand rather than left hand. So this fits biblical description perfectly.

Also, the fact that bar codes have 666 on them implies that once they are being implanted into your body, you will get 666 on right hand or forehead. And, of course, you won't be able to "buy and sell" without it. Just like bible says.

I never said God need any men to speak for him. The ONLY place to lookon is Bible, period. Don't listen to preacher; read the bible. I am saying homosexuality is wrong because BIBLE says so, the fact that preachers happened to agree with the bible on this one is moot point.