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Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 5:35 pm

Joker wrote:
I would be angry many people have been tortured for being suspected of terrorism in the US many people who tortured and it turned out they where innocent.


OK, how would you feel if this happened to thousands of people, most of whom were completely innocent. One day they were at home cooking dinner, the next they were having their fingernails pulled out and had broken glass forced into their anus because someone suspected they might have been terrorists, so they wanted to inflict appalling terror and mutilation upon them? When they are finished, they are brutally murdered and are never seen again.



Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 5:36 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
They all share a dislike of the US.


I can sort of understand that dislike of the U.S. - at the time, half of the U.S. administration favoured the Argentines over the Falklands and barely lifted a finger to help their closest friends!



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15 Apr 2012, 5:53 pm

Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
They all share a dislike of the US.


I can sort of understand that dislike of the U.S. - at the time, half of the U.S. administration favoured the Argentines over the Falklands and barely lifted a finger to help their closest friends!


A lot of Repugnicans felt a greater affinity for Argentina's military dictatorship than for Thatcher's somewhat-less-conservative outlook on things.

Anyway, it does look like a number of countries were playing both sides.

Quote:
On the evening of the 3 April, Britain's United Nations ambassador Sir Anthony Parsons put a draft resolution to the United Nations Security Council. The resolution, which condemned the hostilities and demanded immediate Argentine withdrawal from the Islands was adopted by the council the following day as United Nations Security Council Resolution 502, which passed with ten votes in support, one against and four abstentions (China, the Soviet Union and Spain among them).[24][25][26] The UK received further political support from the Commonwealth of Nations and the European Economic Community. The EEC also provided economic support by imposing economic sanctions on Argentina. Argentina itself was politically backed by a majority of countries in Latin America and the Non-Aligned Movement

The war was an unexpected event in a world strained by the Cold War and the North–South divide. The response of some countries was the effort to mediate the crisis and later as the war began, the support (or criticism) based in terms of anti-colonialism, political solidarity, historical relationships or realpolitik. In other cases it was only verbal support.

The United States initially tried to mediate an end to the conflict. However, when Argentina refused the U.S. peace overtures, U.S. Secretary of State Alexander Haig announced that the United States would prohibit arms sales to Argentina and provide material support for British operations. Both Houses of the U.S. Congress passed resolutions supporting the U.S. action siding with the United Kingdom.

An important factor was military support. The USA provided the United Kingdom with military equipment ranging from submarine detectors to the latest missiles. France provided dissimilar aircraft training so Harrier pilots could train against the French aircraft used by Argentina. French and British intelligence also worked to prevent Argentina from obtaining more Exocet missiles on the international market. Chile gave support to Britain in the form of Intelligence about Argentine military and radar early warning.

While France overtly backed the United Kingdom, a French technical team remained in Argentina throughout the war. French government sources have said the French team was engaged in intelligence-gathering; however, it simultaneously provided direct material support to the Argentines, identifying and fixing faults in Exocet missile launchers.

According to an article in La Nación and quoting from a book Operation Israel, advisors from Israel Aerospace Industries were already in Argentina and continued their work during the conflict. The article also says that Israel sold weapons and drop tanks in a secret operation in Peru.

Peru also openly sent "Mirages, pilots and missiles" to Argentina during the war. Through Libya, under Muammar Gaddafi, Argentina received 20 launchers and 60 SA-7 missiles, as well as machine guns, mortars and mines, all in all, the load of four trips of two Boeing 707 of the AAF, refuelled in Recife with the knowledge and consent of the Brazilian government.



I'm sure many members of the Reagan administration would have been horrified that French and British intelligence worked to prevent Argentina from obtaining Exocet missiles on the international market, as this represents a damnable violation of the Second Amendment.



Chipshorter
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15 Apr 2012, 6:00 pm

Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
They all share a dislike of the US.


I can sort of understand that dislike of the U.S. - at the time, half of the U.S. administration favoured the Argentines over the Falklands and barely lifted a finger to help their closest friends!


Great point, Chile at that time was also in the US administration's pocket but they sided with us over the Falklands due the reasons I stated before in the thread. OK the Pinochet junta was just as bad the Videla junta for human rights violations. The Yanks had other puppets in political power in Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil at that same time! Them four South American countries sided with the Argies.


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Joker
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15 Apr 2012, 6:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I would be angry many people have been tortured for being suspected of terrorism in the US many people who tortured and it turned out they where innocent.


OK, how would you feel if this happened to thousands of people, most of whom were completely innocent. One day they were at home cooking dinner, the next they were having their fingernails pulled out and had broken glass forced into their anus because someone suspected they might have been terrorists, so they wanted to inflict appalling terror and mutilation upon them? When they are finished, they are brutally murdered and are never seen again.


I would still feel the same the world is not perfect life is hard period even if your not the victim of such things.



Chipshorter
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15 Apr 2012, 6:24 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
I'm sure many members of the Reagan administration would have been horrified that French and British intelligence worked to prevent Argentina from obtaining Exocet missiles on the international market, as this represents a damnable violation of the Second Amendment.


Screw the Second amendment!! Do you wish to tell everyone what country manufacturers Exocet missiles? We know you can read Wikipedia. The country that makes them missiles overtly backed the UK over the Falklands!!

Edit

You failed to point to that France was subject to an EEC & NATO arms embargo.

Argentine Airpower in the Falklands War wrote:
The pilots of the 2d Escuadrilla, trained in France in 1980–81, were fully qualified with the aircraft. However, at the time the conflict in the Falklands began, only five of the Super Etendards and five Exocet missiles had been delivered from France. The Common Market nations and NATO immediately initiated an arms embargo on Argentina, therefore halting the French shipments of planes and missiles. Throughout the conflict, the Argentine government tried desperately but unsuccessfully to obtain more Exocets on the world market. Argentina would have to fight the war with only five Etendards and Exocet missiles. Since spare parts for the Etendards were cut off by the NATO arms embargo, the FAA decided to hold one of the five fighters in reserve and use it for parts to support the remaining four aircraft.

The Argentinians had no previous experience with antiship missiles, and the Exocet was a complicated and cranky weapon. The Argentinians experienced a lot of trouble fitting the Exocet launch system and rails to the Super Etendards. In November 1981, Dassault Aviation, owned by the French government and builder of the Super Etendard, sent a team of nine of its own technicians (and some additional French Aerospatiale specialists) to work with the Argentine navy to supervise the introduction of the Etendards and Exocets. Although France complied with the NATO/ Common Market weapons embargo, the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems. Without the technical help and collusion from the government of France—Britain’s NATO “ally”—it is improbable that Argentina would have been able to employ its most devastating weapon.


Source: http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... corum.html


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Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 6:52 pm

Joker wrote:
I would still feel the same the world is not perfect life is hard period even if your not the victim of such things.


You're disgusting.



Joker
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15 Apr 2012, 6:57 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
I would still feel the same the world is not perfect life is hard period even if your not the victim of such things.


You're disgusting.


That is how I feel can't help I aswered your qesrtion and was honest with my answer.



Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 7:00 pm

Joker wrote:
That is how I feel can't help I aswered your qesrtion and was honest with my answer.


If you seriously feel like that, you obviously don't have any empathy for your fellow man or much in the way of decency to human beings. It's an inhuman response.



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15 Apr 2012, 7:02 pm

Tequila wrote:
Joker wrote:
That is how I feel can't help I aswered your qesrtion and was honest with my answer.


If you seriously feel like that, you obviously don't have any empathy for your fellow man or much in the way of decency to human beings. It's an inhuman response.


That's your opinon but it is how I feel about it and I was honest with my response do you want me to lie and cry about it?



Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 7:07 pm

I only hope that you never have painful events happen in your life that make you rethink your naïve decision.



ruveyn
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15 Apr 2012, 7:27 pm

Tequila wrote:
How would you feel if your mother was kidnapped by the state and tortured on the - entirely bogus - premise that she was a terrorist? Even when you knew she was nothing of the sort, she was just a peaceable, normal being but someone disliked her so she ended up being brutalised?


I imagine I would feel pretty bad, but being realistic I must realize that outrages like this are a daily ocurrence mostly in third world hell holes and quasi-fascist dictatorships. You know, the world is really not a nice place, and the human race is not a lovable species. Can you get used to that? I can and I have. If I let outrage rule my life, my head would explode.

ruveyn



Tequila
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15 Apr 2012, 7:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:
You know, the world is really not a nice place, and the human race is not a lovable species. Can you get used to that? I can and I have. If I let outrage rule my life, my head would explode


It's not easy but I'm sure I adopt this attitude in practice.



Kjas
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15 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
They all share a dislike of the US.


I can sort of understand that dislike of the U.S. - at the time, half of the U.S. administration favoured the Argentines over the Falklands and barely lifted a finger to help their closest friends!


Great point, Chile at that time was also in the US administration's pocket but they sided with us over the Falklands due the reasons I stated before in the thread. OK the Pinochet junta was just as bad the Videla junta for human rights violations. The Yanks had other puppets in political power in Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil at that same time! Them four South American countries sided with the Argies.


Course they share a dislike of the US, the US was involved (or at least gave a hand) in bringing the Argentinean government responsible for los desaparecidos to power in the first place. Then the US also continued to support that government while they were in power.


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15 Apr 2012, 11:27 pm

Kjas wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Chipshorter wrote:
They all share a dislike of the US.


I can sort of understand that dislike of the U.S. - at the time, half of the U.S. administration favoured the Argentines over the Falklands and barely lifted a finger to help their closest friends!


Great point, Chile at that time was also in the US administration's pocket but they sided with us over the Falklands due the reasons I stated before in the thread. OK the Pinochet junta was just as bad the Videla junta for human rights violations. The Yanks had other puppets in political power in Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil at that same time! Them four South American countries sided with the Argies.


Course they share a dislike of the US, the US was involved (or at least gave a hand) in bringing the Argentinean government responsible for los desaparecidos to power in the first place. Then the US also continued to support that government while they were in power.


Nixon and Kissinger both had a direct involvement in the '73 coup that got Pinochet into power. I know two Chilean guys who escaped the Caravana de la Muerte.


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Kjas
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15 Apr 2012, 11:46 pm

Chipshorter wrote:
Nixon and Kissinger both had a direct involvement in the '73 coup that got Pinochet into power. I know two Chilean guys who escaped the Caravana de la Muerte.


As much as I would like to turn in thread into a discussion of the very long list of US interventions in Latin America, I will refrain. But yes, I am well aware of Pinochet and the others and just how much involvement there was.

My post was simply in order to point out the very selective historical amnesia that people like to employ (especially when to comes to outside involvement) when it comes to things how people like Videla get away with the things they do.


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