Sharia4Holland/Sharia4Belgium
Kjas
Veteran
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
Teq, here there is unashamed racism and xenophobia. So much so that it influences elections quite heavily. The attitude here is not "free for all" it's usually "stop the boats" by a large percentage of the population.
I am the last person who would ask you to ignore statistics and facts, and I have no problem with you guys discussing these things, it's just the way you choose to go about it. (if comes off badly even if you don't mean it that way)
That is, if you focus solely on one or two things to the exclusion of all else, it sounds xenophobic even if you aren't and it isn't meant to be. (A mistake I made in the past while trying to discuss similar issues)
I have noticed that the south east asian communities here by and large have done very well for themselves. Maybe it's the fact that their culture really has an emphasis on education and business? Having said that, they don't usually come into the country dirt poor either.
There are many casual links and as you mentioned, if by the 3rd or 5th generation, then absolutely it's right to be asking questions, but I haven't seen you present anything else yet that count account for it.
If it is purely cultural, you should be able to find similar statistics for people of that origin that have resettled elsewhere outside of Europe.
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Last edited by Kjas on 26 May 2012, 10:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Here's the problem: you really need to have a clearly-defined thesis, or else it can sound as if you are might just be covering for more nefarious motives such as racism.
Which of the following are you saying:
There is quite a difference between committing crimes such as theft and rape, and wanting to overthrow the state and replace it with sharia. In fact, it seems like they could be considered complete opposites! After all, sharia has more severe punishments for such crimes than modern Western law does.
Right. Because the proverbial other camp seems to be suffering from severe misunderstanding, here are my views and reasoning.
My opinion: I'm not half as racist as the people saying I'm racist.
My reasoning: I didn't bring up the issue of race. What I'm consistently bringing up, though, is culture, religion and common pragmatism. For example, in the case of withdrawing food aid, I'm saying these people should have incentives to stop growing their population ad infinitum while they're not even producing half the food they need. Did I mention Africa? It happens to be the only place in the world where that's true on such a large scale, but they have a different skin colour than me, so the real racists assume I'm racist for saying they need to control their birth rates if they ever want to break out of the yearly cycle of famine, food aid, population growth and more famine.
My opinion: Immigrants in Europe who are part of islamic religious groups are a group with a greatly-increased risk of a lot of bad things.
My reasoning: Moroccans import illiterate brides and conservative husbands from Morocco for their sons and daughters - often family members. Their offspring is known for being genetically set for having a disproportionate amount of mental and physical disorders. Their cultures are exceedingly group-bound, and people who break that tradition are at risk. A Moroccan woman was beaten so badly she had a miscarriage for dating a man who wasn't ethnically Moroccan.
Meanwhile, reports of honour killings and informal sharia courts in some European countries have emerged. Because these groups are so closed, often have their own schools, mosques and sometimes even medical clinics, watching out for dangerous developments is hard. The man who murdered a film maker for insulting Muhammed was linked to an isolationist mosque that couldn't be properly investigated until after the murder.
There is certainly some anti-democratic sentiment within large portions of several muslim populations in western Europe (Moroccans, Turks, Somalians, Iraqis, Iranians and Pakistanis). Because a lot of them, especially the young ones, completely reject western values which oppose their tight-knit group values, they're not likely to listen to that system or respect it in any way. They care more for the approval of their peers, it's been said, than they do about spending months (yes, it's that lenient) in jail for rape or purposely inflicting physical injury.
My opinion: Some cultural or ethnic groups are much more likely to be involved in crime or welfare.
My reasoning: It's the plain truth. There is no way of denying it - those are the facts, those are the figures. Moroccan young men, closely followed by Antillean young men, are exceedingly over-represented in crime and welfare.
My opinion: A political and social taboo on researching these issues has only recently been cracked open.
My reasoning: There was an article in a newspaper a few days ago. It explained how research that didn't support the idea that all cultures were equal, everyone was equally capable, problems were the result of poverty and genetic differences were only phenotypical was categorically refused funding, censored and the authors were disciplined or rejected in academic circles.
However, after some political wake-up calls (two high-profile murders and several riots in a few years), the taboo has been lifted slightly, and all results from research since then has indicated that there are differences in cultures that have a causal link with crime, welfare and rejection of democracy and western values, and that some cultural and religious groups have simply had much more of a deep-rooted conflict with our society.
It's 5 am and the sun is rising. I'll be off to bed. Goodnight - I hope this thread is still open and going when I return.
Eurabia is a bit of an exaggeration - these people can't even get together a coherent story, instead ranting, issuing death threats and occasionally murdering people, but there certainly are problems that have causal links with islam and cultures of the Maghreb, Anatolia, the Antilles and Suriname.
Apparently, Al-Shabaab has a branch in the Netherlands and several other European countries (including the United Kingdom). That's what a defected commander in Somalia said. They're preparing suicide bombings after a training stay in Somalia where they helped Al-Shabaab. Two years ago, some of them were arrested here for preparing for a bombing that was set for Christmas eve. They were released without an investigation.
In Britain, the amount of people who worked for Al-Shabaab in Somalia is estimated to be around a hundred.
Edit below: Here's another video by these gentlemen. It's embedded in the page. In English, for your amusement.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/s/12223353
Such a reason to respond. I'm not really complaining about it, even though it's clear that opinions are put above facts here, but I've made a note to myself that I can't argue for something that negatively impacts people with a different skin colour than mine, as it supposedly makes me a racist. That's the kind of social taboo that rests on criticizing people who happen not to be members of my ethnic group.
My threads got locked because I broke a rule somewhere. So did yours and others. Its not a big conspiracy
I wonder now if some people post threads knowing they will be locked just to prove a point (the mods enforce the TOS??)
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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Kjas
Veteran
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,059
Location: the place I'm from doesn't exist anymore
I frankly have given you the benefit of the doubt and have not assumed you are a racist.
I asked before to find similar statistics for people of that origin that have resettled elsewhere outside of Europe, thus as a way to prove your claim but you have presented no such evidence.
You want to work with stats and I'm all for that, so let's see some.
_________________
Diagnostic Tools and Resources for Women with AS: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt211004.html
Isn't it great being lectured to by a holier than thou Canadian that has never even visited your country?
Isn't it great being bullied by someone whose country has a positively xenophobic immigration policy by comparison?
Better just shut up and watch your country and culture be destroyed, after all, if you don't you might upset a Canadian.
This thread is being locked for the following reason:
2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.
Link to WP rules: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73833.html
Beyond that, I am not going to comment on the main content of this thread.
I will just say that sometimes, I am ashamed to be associated with some of the posters here.
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Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.
