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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2012, 1:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
What if that is one's hobby?

ruveyn

Then asking about 'purpose' at his end might be employing the wrong set of questions.


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17 Jun 2012, 1:28 pm

If creating things is a hobby, is destroying things a job? Maybe it's the other way around.


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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2012, 1:36 pm

probably. When you have....no.....are...infinite space it sounds tantamount to trashing a pebble in Yosemite to make space for a new one.


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enrico_dandolo
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17 Jun 2012, 1:45 pm

The only known truths are that a) we, poor humans, exist, and can't leave this world, until... b) we die, which is certain. We be, we die. Since our absurd existence has to be justified, we create interesting stories to make some sense out of it, but all such stories still have to give the same ultimate result: there are humans, and they all die.

Obviously, we could describe the creators behaviour as cruel or selfish, but like SpiritBlooms has said, whatever happens in a hypothetical afterlife would challenge our mortal comprehension. If we didn't die, we would already understand the world in a completely different way -- a bit like the Elves in Tolkien's legendarium, which envy mortal Men for mortality, the Gift of Illuvatar, because they can leave the Earth, whereas Men envy the Elves for their immortality, like we would. In the same way, where observing the behaviour of an omnipresent and omnipotent eternal supreme being, I don't think our earthly mental schemas are of much usefulness.



androbot2084
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17 Jun 2012, 1:45 pm

A pebble would contain infinite space if everything was miniaturized.



SpiritBlooms
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17 Jun 2012, 2:17 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Why bother creating life or multiple universes to begin with?

According to Gnosticism it was an error, or worse, a deliberate rebellion.



techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2012, 3:12 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Why bother creating life or multiple universes to begin with?

According to Gnosticism it was an error, or worse, a deliberate rebellion.

I read the Tripartite Tractate and like most other things about it, however the 'mistake' makes as absolutely little sense as the idea that an omniscient God, who is omniscient by being THE totality, the sum of all factors, could create any sort of being and not see that beings entire future out into infinity as they designed that beings traits and gave them a particular launch time.

The question I asked above was one I was essentially throwing back at the OP. To ask the question "What's the purpose of heaven" and to give a bunch of man-made answers is okay for conjecture but, essentially the question I asked might as well be asked even before a purpose of heaven is inquired to. We don't know, we'll probably never fully know.


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SpiritBlooms
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17 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
To ask the question "What's the purpose of heaven" and to give a bunch of man-made answers is okay for conjecture but, essentially the question I asked might as well be asked even before a purpose of heaven is inquired to. We don't know, we'll probably never fully know.

Precisely, we can't know, unless there is an afterlife and unless we can learn then, and as I pointed out in my previous post:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
If there is an afterlife I doubt we can possibly understand or predict it in human/earthly terms. I can't imagine it needs a purpose, since to me it would be the existence our spirits are in (at home in?) when not in or encompassing a body. I think the more important question would be what is the purpose of this life?

I could of course add, if there is a purpose to this life.



techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2012, 4:12 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
To ask the question "What's the purpose of heaven" and to give a bunch of man-made answers is okay for conjecture but, essentially the question I asked might as well be asked even before a purpose of heaven is inquired to. We don't know, we'll probably never fully know.

Precisely, we can't know, unless there is an afterlife and unless we can learn then, and as I pointed out in my previous post:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
If there is an afterlife I doubt we can possibly understand or predict it in human/earthly terms. I can't imagine it needs a purpose, since to me it would be the existence our spirits are in (at home in?) when not in or encompassing a body. I think the more important question would be what is the purpose of this life?

I could of course add, if there is a purpose to this life.

Well, I'd still have to say the questions of "What was God thinking?" vs. "What is the general structure of eternal life?" are questions that are in completely different leagues; the second I think is within our reach to pursue (we are actually coming back to some big truths on that IMHO), the first isn't.


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VIDEODROME
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17 Jun 2012, 5:30 pm

What if Heaven isn't a place as much as it is a state of being? Or rather a final place where you are preparing to advance to a different spiritual level?

I don't know if that would be the case but that would be an idea of Heaven having a purpose. Kind of like a cozy waiting room were you take a moment to gather yourself before really moving forward.



techstepgenr8tion
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17 Jun 2012, 6:35 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
What if Heaven isn't a place as much as it is a state of being? Or rather a final place where you are preparing to advance to a different spiritual level?

I don't know if that would be the case but that would be an idea of Heaven having a purpose. Kind of like a cozy waiting room were you take a moment to gather yourself before really moving forward.

Then you're getting right into Hinduism and Buddhism, which are also well established world religions. From that POV heaven is the baseball dugout and you stay there for a moment reuniting with your eternal knowledge until you have to go to the bull pen and then head up to home plate.


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17 Jun 2012, 7:07 pm

Yeah that influenced me. Is Heaven really the Bardo or In-Between state?

Then what's next? Getting closer to "God"? Or getting closer to our own fulfilled "Buddha" nature?



JNathanK
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17 Jun 2012, 7:18 pm

to be the dualistic opposite of hell I suppose



SpiritBlooms
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18 Jun 2012, 11:25 am

JNathanK wrote:
to be the dualistic opposite of hell I suppose

Exactly, it's a mental construct. I do think it exists, in many people's minds, as a means of categorizing. But in outer reality? How can we know?



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20 Jun 2012, 11:37 am

ruveyn wrote:
The idea that wicked people can live their full lives without a punishment and that good people can meet bad end is intolerable to people with a certain idea of justice. So Heaven was where the good people unjustly treated get a compensation and Hell is where the wicked finally get their due punishment.

ruveyn


At that point, it's redundant. If justice is to be served and punishment is to meted out to the wicked, it must be done in this life but if not, then at least they can no longer harm anyone now that they dead. If a good person meets a bad end then that's unfortunate but at least they good during life. Concepts of good, evil and justice are only relevant to the living. So, despite the fact that I don't really believe in a heaven or a hell, I also don't need the concepts of heaven and hell to satisfy a particular need.